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I feel so naive asking this, but I really would like to better understand the specific scenario that led to being raped repeatedly "several times over months" by a colleague. Especially because it apparently happened to another female colleague by another man "in much the same way my attacker had raped me." I don't doubt FOR A MINUTE that this can happen but perhaps understanding the circumstances could provide a foc…
Earlier quoted context omitted.
I defined rape as the kind with the (bad) screaming and the blood, or tried to. I am aware that some people steal because they are starving but most theft I have seen was somebody who wanted to prove that they could do it. In the same way, I know some people rape in other complicated situations, but the rape I have seen in my life was individuals who just wanted to prove that they could do whatever they wanted, and n…
> * nor do I feel confident that reporting rape to our existing justice system would save me from further humiliation and other professional/personal consequences while providing safety* Has there ever been any evidence that charging a person of power of any crime comes with protection from collateral professional/personal consequences ? In my personal view, getting raped is enough violence that I wouldn't prioritise…
> In my personal view, getting raped is enough violence
> that I wouldn't prioritise my professional or personal
> comfort over getting justice.
It costs money to be alive, basically. You need food. You need shelter. You may have other people such as children that are depending on you.
Should a mother let her kids go hungry because she doesn't want to work in a sexually hostile environment?
That's the very real choice that a lot of people make on a daily basis. A lot of women simply deal with the degrading stuff because they need to get by, and/or perhaps because they hope to gradually change the system from within. Will you pay their bills if they take a stand for what's right and fight their employers?
If you can pick and choose your jobs and don't have to worry about any of the above: please understand that very few people enjoy such a luxury.
I don't know what it's like to be raped or sexually harassed, but I am frequently amused at how skeptics think it's so cut-and-dry to just report the issue. This came up in Kelly Ellis's public revelation yesterday that she had been sexually harassed at Google. The Twitter thread starts here: https://twitter.com/justkelly_ok/status/574092972624490497 The following is Ellis's statement, and then one of her more earnes…
She went public with concrete names and bad things that happened to her while working at Google, regarding both an engineering manager Rod Chavez, and a VP, Vic Gondotra. While there were a few of the expected "where's the proof" people on Twitter, as Kelly said, the large majority of responses she got were supportive, from lots of men and women.
In addition, in the google+ thread, several people from inside Google expressed shock (they only heard about it now, it wasn't common knowledge across the company) and mentioned that a lot of noise is going on internally right now about this.
Gondotra isn't still with Google, but Chavez is. I would bet that won't be for long.
Overall, the responses internally at Google were horrible, back then. HR tried to save the company from liability, not help her. But when she went public now, the responses were good, and change might actually happen.
As the saying goes, sunlight is the best disinfectant. The article here is correct to say that it's scary to be a whistleblower, but Kelly Ellis shows it's possible to be brave, and that the industry and community will in fact react positively when you do.
She was raped several times over several months? What on earth? Why isn't this being reported to the police? There is a whole department of law enforcement (funded by our money) that deals precisely with issues of violence. Just use it instead of blogging about your troubles.
Why isn't this being reported to the police? That's pretty much what the entire article is about - the risks of taking this before a court or even just bringing it up internally in a company; the potential damage to reputation, career and wellbeing can outweigh the slim possibility of justice (and it is a slim one, because often there are no witnesses). Just talking about this would be a huge decision for anyone, let…
As many as 12% of rapes lead to a conviction, which is not slim when you consider the amount that are unreported.
It's also silly to compare reporting a rape to an NSA whistleblower. I would pass someone up for a job for giving away company secrets, even if they were ones I didn't agree with. I would never pass a woman up for a job for having reported being raped.
I can't help but think this is a problem in america and not a problem in tech. Over here (UK) I've never seen or heard of anything like this. I don't know, maybe I'm wrong and I've just never seen it. Either way, it's not on and it needs to stop
Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm sorry, could you define what you mean by "grey area sex"?
Hard to define, but easy to give examples for. Here's one: Man drunk. Woman drunk. Man woman have sex. Technically, both of them raped each other. But this is pretty far from what you'd call rape, even if it is legally considered that. This is "grey area sex".
If all parties involved wanted to have sex with the other party or parties, and the opportunity arose while they were intoxicated, that's not rape. Maybe still a little grey for all parties, and possibly not good judgment.
But, I think the grey area is much smaller than the instances of rape, and the fear some men seem to have of being accused of rape or similar for those extremely rare instances of "grey area" sex way overblown.
There was a study recently where participants were asked if they'd ever done various things, that effectively described rape. The same participants were asked if they'd ever raped anyone. The incidence of people who said "yes" to the behaviors that describe rape was much higher than the incidence of people who said "yes" to having ever raped someone. The participants thought those were "grey areas", but most of them were pretty clearly just rape.
Also, every time I read one of these articles I cringe. There's a big movement to "include women in tech", but it's interesting to note that (in my experience) there is a large group (bordering on majority) of women in tech that are just as disgusted by these articles.
My girlfriend finds it particularly offensive, her comments usually being something along the lines of: "If women want to be treated as equals, they should act like equals, not complain." Point being, she finds these articles counter productive, and most of the women whinny. She thinks a lot of the people in tech can be weird, and this can lead to people believing it there sexism, when in actuality it is just awkward behavior.
Finally, and my personal opinion, no one supports rape, sexual harassment or racism, and any subconscious bias is pretty hard to discern. It would be better to involve the authorities if you feel you are being rapped or harassed. From my personal point of view I have seen SO many women complain about being harassed or put down, and the fact is they may have, but I have never seen it. I work regularly with women in my jobs and I've never seen or had a problem. Some are bad team members and some are good. They are usually treated by skill level from my experience, and I have seen this taken as sexism more than once.
Other places are different (apparently) and if that's the case, punish the crap out of the people who harass women/race.
BUT FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, stop putting me in a group with these people. I'm calling bullshit on not just this article, but half these articles. There is definitely less women in tech, and nothing is inherently wrong with that. If there's something I can do to make it more inclusive, I will. However, please OP and anyone reading this, come at it with an open mind. Just because women aren't in tech does not imply something is wrong. Women and men are different, it's okay as long as it is not a sexist barrier. Just not having a lot of women does not mean there is that barrier.
Every situation is different, and you may have indeed been wronged (and I can sympathize), but stop generalizing. It's borderline sexism to claim "everyone in tech is sexist against women," we all know males have to watch themselves and be careful. That's probably why the OP was offered money, people are so scared of being called sexist, because it's so blown out of proportion. Handle it like everything else, with a clear mind.
If we are going to talk about sexism, give me the facts, give me the barrier, and give me a way I can fix it besides just being "subconsciously and uncontrollably bias." If that can't be done, then there probably isn't justification to discuss the concerns (yet).
I'd like to add the only education available to teach people social interactions, outside of being self-taught, is PUA material, as well as in-house education on how to influence masses in the intelligence community. Which means if you weren't in a situation to talk to enough people while you were growing up, later on in life you'll miss out on jobs, you'll feel insecure, you'll make inappropriate comments, you'll have difficulty making friends, you'll have difficulty seducing a potential mate, you'll get divorced later on due to inability to manage arguments and fights and conflicts.
Families have been getting smaller - first people stopped living with close to their relatives, then people stopped living with their parents and siblings, and now people begin to stop living with their husbands or wives, and children without at least one of their parents, and parents having fewer siblings in general.
People are receiving less practical experience in interacting socially as they are growing up. You either fit in at school and do well, or you don't and isolate yourself and fall behind.
We have a mess at university campuses. We have a mess in tech companies. We have growing numbers of men who are 'losers'. We have growing numbers of women who can't get married if they want to. We have growing instances of inappropriate behaviour at work. Men and women resorting to electronic means to communicate, and avoiding face-to-face interaction, even among friends. Parents sent to nursing homes, pension spending growing and unsustainable. People growing up with little to no spiritual values besides materialism. etc, etc.
I think all of these stem from smaller families, causing less exposure to social interaction with others of the same age as well as with the older generation, resulting in less wisdom passed down, and decreased social ability of people growing up.
And it's only going to continue to get worse.
Though maybe people getting poor and being forced to stay with their parents for long might just be where the second derivative is beginning to turn.
I feel so naive asking this, but I really would like to better understand the specific scenario that led to being raped repeatedly "several times over months" by a colleague. Especially because it apparently happened to another female colleague by another man "in much the same way my attacker had raped me." I don't doubt FOR A MINUTE that this can happen but perhaps understanding the circumstances could provide a foc…
Story from a friend of a friend's law firm. Young associate worked for this partner. Over the course of months, he coerced her into giving him blowjobs. Eventually she quit. 1) Why is this rape? Because coercion doesn't just take the form of physical violence. 2) Why not report to the police? Because it's mutually assured destruction. Even if you bring the guy down, you'll be known as the woman who called the police…
Would the police do anything about the scenario you outlined above? Wouldn't sexual harassment where the boss trades sexual favors for promotions/job security be considered a civil matter in most places?