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GPS tracking device found on an activist's car

people.torproject.org

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Re: GPS tracking device found on an activist's car

#131

Post by jjoonathan »

baddox wrote: post #90
spiritplumber wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that a lot of people genuinely think "If a large institution approved of it, it must be good". Which is a lot scarier than people not giving a damn about good or evil. Morality is not something you outsource.

A lot of people (probably the vast majority, at least in the West) also believe that, because you can occasionally vote on things, anything the government does is fine because, after all, "government is us."

Who, exactly, is this "lot of people" you refer to?

> "anything the government does is fine"

I have literally never met a single person who believes this. I have met someone who believes that anything the market does is fine (revealed preferences, doncha know?) but fortunately he's a minority, even among libertarians. If we instead interpret your statement as hyperbole with the intention of accusing people of complacency, then...

http://xkcd.com/610/

... you're no better.

Re: GPS tracking device found on an activist's car

#132

Post by furyg3 »

makenova wrote: post #114
tacoman wrote: post #74

A friend of mine hired someone to gather data on his cheating wife. A device that looked similar to this was used on her car. $400 for a month of real-time location data. Maybe this has nothing to do with conference this person was attending.

I agree, there is a company in my city that will hook a device up to the car battery and place it in a discrete location. They mostly deal with fleet management but some of their business is from spouses tracking each other. There a "funny" story about a wife bringing in a vehicle that her husband had brought in earlier.

Hilarious. No problem for the company, but I wonder if they installed two or just sent the data to both of them...

I have a car I don't use very often and often forget where I park it. DX and BangGood have GPS trackers you can buy for $20-40 that you can install a prepaid SIM card in, text message and receive coordinates. Not a bad roll-your-own-LoJack.

Re: GPS tracking device found on an activist's car

#133

Post by Dylan16807 »

fnordfnordfnord wrote: post #107
jonmrodriguez wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess it's hard to prove, but I think certain objects are inherently correlated with good/evil. E.g. a torture device is inherently evil IMHO, and a vaccine is inherently good.

Maybe for some object, but I can't think of any, and I don't think that vaccines or torture devices fit the bill. One could sell a spoiled, ineffective, tainted, or defective vaccine. That would be evil. Or, one could torture Hitler to learn how to disarm the doomsday machine.

The original vaccine is still good, and it's evil to torture anyone, even Hitler. I think you're stretching too far.

Re: GPS tracking device found on an activist's car

#134

Post by furyg3 »

cnvogel wrote: post #96

I think one of the first things I'd try when finding such a device on my premises would be to try and login to the self-service portal of the mobile carrier that issued the SIM card. At least in the case of my phone-service provider (I'm also located in the EU) this uses the phone number, and a password which can be requested by SMS... In the case of my provider, the permission to use the self-service portal which in…

A very good idea. Although someone intelligent enough to rig this up almost certainly bought a pre-paid SIM with cash.

Re: GPS tracking device found on an activist's car

#135

Post by antsar »

tsotha wrote: post #81
rbanffy wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's so much easier to just keep passing it around to your friends so they can attach it to as many different cars (or other kinds of vehicle) as possible. Imagine what your fans in government would think if the logs of your car included long periods over water or a trip to the stratosphere or a trek through the woods. Or they decided to find you once you decided to seemingly leave civilization behind to discover you…

I think I'd try to pop it into the wheel well of the nearest police car.

This...sounds like a great way to get shot.

Re: GPS tracking device found on an activist's car

#136

Post by angry_octet »

furyg3 wrote: post #134
cnvogel wrote: post #96

I think one of the first things I'd try when finding such a device on my premises would be to try and login to the self-service portal of the mobile carrier that issued the SIM card. At least in the case of my phone-service provider (I'm also located in the EU) this uses the phone number, and a password which can be requested by SMS... In the case of my provider, the permission to use the self-service portal which in…

A very good idea. Although someone intelligent enough to rig this up almost certainly bought a pre-paid SIM with cash.

Really? It is much more likely that it was bought with an offical police purchasing department credit card directly from the carrier. For them, it isn't illegal, and governments control cash pretty tightly.

Re: GPS tracking device found on an activist's car

#137

Post by krenoten »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #133
fnordfnordfnord wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe for some object, but I can't think of any, and I don't think that vaccines or torture devices fit the bill. One could sell a spoiled, ineffective, tainted, or defective vaccine. That would be evil. Or, one could torture Hitler to learn how to disarm the doomsday machine.

The original vaccine is still good, and it's evil to torture anyone, even Hitler. I think you're stretching too far.

"Good" is inherently normative. Nothing can be "good" exterior to a normative claim. This is in contrast with "positive" statements, which are true regardless of anything happening to perceive them that way or not. The original vaccine, if it exists in a vacuum, is neither good nor bad, because there is nothing else to attach the normative claim to it.

Further - and while this is an entirely normative claim - if you would happen to agree that if you could save 1,000,000,000 lives by torturing one person for 5 seconds, that you should do so, then I would argue that torture is not inherently evil within your own normative value system.

Re: GPS tracking device found on an activist's car

#138

Post by Dylan16807 »

krenoten wrote: post #137
Dylan16807 wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The original vaccine is still good, and it's evil to torture anyone, even Hitler. I think you're stretching too far.

"Good" is inherently normative. Nothing can be "good" exterior to a normative claim. This is in contrast with "positive" statements, which are true regardless of anything happening to perceive them that way or not. The original vaccine, if it exists in a vacuum, is neither good nor bad, because there is nothing else to attach the normative claim to it. Further - and while this is an entirely normative claim - if you…

>in a vacuum

It wouldn't be a 'vaccine' if it was in a vacuum, it would just be a vial of fluids. Once you have enough context to define vaccine, you can demonstrate that it is good.

>1,000,000,000 lives by torturing one person for 5 seconds

This argument is just obnoxious. Give me a moment.

...

You can play with all the numbers you want, they don't change the underlying act. Except to the extent that you make the time period so short it no longer qualifies as torture and you're not even asking a question any more.

Re: GPS tracking device found on an activist's car

#139

Post by tsotha »

kh_hk wrote: post #119
tsotha wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why pay extra if you don't have to? Looks perfectly serviceable to me.

Was pointing out we should not rule out any government agency just for the quality of the setup. I find it hard to believe that an activist would be targeted by a private investigator.

I agree, however "activist" is only part of her identity. This could easily be a jealous lover.
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