GPS tracking device found on an activist's car • Hacker News Board

Re: GPS tracking device found on an activist's car

#121

Post by CPLX » Sat, Mar 07, 2015, 4:59 PM UTC

markrages wrote: post #8

tomkinstinch wrote: post #4

Very few companies produce GPS chips. Most devices that include GPS capability do not bother to reinvent the wheel, but instead elect to integrate an existing GPS processing chip. It's unlikely the GPS module is integrated with the processor core of this thing. Since it is likely separate, it would be fun to probe the PCB with a logic analyzer to see if there are any exposed serial (or possibly I2C, SPI) traces relay…

The enterprising hacker could always use a LabSat[1] device to play back a bogus GPS trace. No physical connection to the board is required. [1] http://www.labsat.co.uk

Much easier - just send it round robin amongst various friends in various parts of the country via FedEx ground. That should keep them busy for awhile.

Re: GPS tracking device found on an activist's car

#122

Post by new299 » Sat, Mar 07, 2015, 5:36 PM UTC

tomkinstinch wrote: post #106

new299 wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can buy second hand GPS transmitters for ~50USD. Remove antenna, plug in transmitter done. Reverse engineering the board would be fun though.

Transmitting RF on GPS frequencies would almost certainly run afoul of local laws on transmission interference, and in the US FCC enforcement penalties are both severe and expensive (as they should be for interference). A direct coax connection would probably be fine though. What are the transmitters you're talking about? Multiple analog front ends each transmitting on a different L1 channel frequency? SDRs transmitt…

Yes, of course, so do all SDRs which is why they don't come with high power frontends. GPS Signal generators are sold as test equipment, and design for wired connection over coax as you say. Using them with a high powered frontend would be illegal.

The transmitters I'm talking about are designed for the mobile phone industry. This is an example:

http://www.meguro.co.jp/english/product/category/category_01...

My guess is they're pretty expensive new, but I've seen them locally for about 50USD.

Re: GPS tracking device found on an activist's car

#123

Post by psykovsky » Sat, Mar 07, 2015, 5:38 PM UTC

doctorshady wrote: post #59

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #6

Uh, any smart phone? Many/most of us are being tracked.

Why's this at the bottom of the thread? It's a very good point. Though you could probably just as easily extend that to any cell phone.

No, it's not a very good point. These dudes are paranoid, they don't carry smartphones.

Re: GPS tracking device found on an activist's car

#124

Post by psykovsky » Sat, Mar 07, 2015, 5:40 PM UTC

lambeosaurus wrote: post #55

I want to write some code that will take these systems and send bogus GPS data the spells out FUCK YOU.

Or Dickbutt...

Re: GPS tracking device found on an activist's car

#125

Post by new299 » Sat, Mar 07, 2015, 5:42 PM UTC

fnordfnordfnord wrote: post #109

tomkinstinch wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Transmitting RF on GPS frequencies would almost certainly run afoul of local laws on transmission interference, and in the US FCC enforcement penalties are both severe and expensive (as they should be for interference). A direct coax connection would probably be fine though. What are the transmitters you're talking about? Multiple analog front ends each transmitting on a different L1 channel frequency? SDRs transmitt…

Are there local laws on transmission interference? As far as the FCC goes, enforcement is hit or miss and generally lax. At least for HAMS, there is a process that begins with someone noticing the interference and complaining to the FCC, sometimes followed by an investigation, which is then sometimes followed by a Notice Of Violation. It takes a while to get to the part where the FCC assesses a penalty (Forfeiture Or…

If you're transmitting your own GPS signal in an Urban area someone is going to notice pretty quickly and angry pretty fast. You will interfere with both law enforcement and emergency services, and likely cause a bunch of trouble.

Thinking about how much trouble you could cause, I'm actually surprised that GPS transmissions aren't signed. I guess if you were implementing it today, that would be a logical feature to add....

After a little googling, it looks like the DoD did think of it, it's just not for the like of us:

    "The Precision (P) code, sometimes called the Precise Positioning Service (PPS), is modulated onto the L1 and L2 carriers allowing for the removal of the first order effects of the ionosphere. The P code is referred to as the Y code if encrypted. Y code is actually the combination of the P code and a W encryption code and requires a DoD authorized receiver to use it. Originally the encryption was intended as a means to safe-guard the signal from being corrupted by interference, jamming, or falsified signals with the GPS signature. Because of the intent to protect against "spoofing," the encryption is referred to as "Anti-spoofing" (A-S). A-S is either "on" or it's "off;" there is no variable effect of A-S as there is with SA."

http://www.csr.utexas.edu/texas_pwv/midterm/gabor/gps.html

Re: GPS tracking device found on an activist's car

#126

Post by jellicle » Sat, Mar 07, 2015, 5:44 PM UTC

gnu8 wrote: post #49

Sanddancer wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The more I look at what else is out there in vehicle tracking, the weirder this thing becomes. Other tracking devices that people have discovered [1] have been much more professionally assembled, with epoxy blobs coating interesting chips and everything. Additionally, fleet telemetric devices that are battery powered and use cell signals and gps also look a lot more professional than this, with plastic casings, neat…

That is extremely interesting. If it wasn't a legal authority that placed the device, then maybe the police can get involved and subpoena the sim card provider, ISP of whatever host the device connects to, etc.

What crime would they be investigating?

Re: GPS tracking device found on an activist's car

#127

Post by tlrobinson » Sat, Mar 07, 2015, 6:24 PM UTC

NietTim wrote: post #101

scintill76 wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It may depend on which state, and sometimes it's a grey area if the car is jointly owned (since you could argue the "owner is consenting" to the tracking). http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/technology/2012/11/...

Not everybody lives in the USA.

Technically he didn't say anything about the United States.

Re: GPS tracking device found on an activist's car

#128

Post by davidcuddeback » Sat, Mar 07, 2015, 6:58 PM UTC

thret wrote: post #23

tlrobinson wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd like to see FBI agents pulling up a map of the guy's locations and finding an elaborate drawing of a penis.

I'm sure this will happen on Archer at some point.

Top Gear did this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2fPXzkPDr4

Re: GPS tracking device found on an activist's car

#129

Post by seba_dos1 » Sat, Mar 07, 2015, 7:47 PM UTC

antr wrote: post #100

callahad wrote: post #37

Cool! Free SIM card with data!

No pin number required?

Even if there's PIN on SIM, tracker must be able to unlock it, and given that GSM module is a pretty common one operated via AT commands over serial line you can easily get it from there.

Re: GPS tracking device found on an activist's car

#130

Post by dingaling » Sat, Mar 07, 2015, 8:28 PM UTC

Symbiote wrote: post #120

dingaling wrote: post #79

During the ' Troubles' in Northern Ireland, chassis inspection mirrors were a common sight. These were large convex mirrors mounted horizontally on castors and with a long handle. They were slid under the car to look for suspicious packages that may have been attached covertly with malicious intent. Very quick to use and were widely issued to individuals who might have been at risk. So it was common to see people usi…

Are they not still needed? Considering the most recent car bomb in Northern Ireland was in November... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chronology_of_Continuity_Irish_... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_Real_Irish_Republic...

I assume they are still in use, but much less obviously than when I was growing-up and about half the folk on our road had one!

If you go along narrow country roads in NI you can find many of the mirrors re-purposed in a vertical orientation opposite blind-exits, as they give a fisheye-type view of the road either side of the junction.