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Net neutrality is a “Taliban-like issue”, says Europe’s top digital policymaker

juliareda.eu

41–50 of 64 posts

Re: Net neutrality is a “Taliban-like issue”, says Europe’s top digital policymaker

#41
post #34
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you buy power to toast some bread, do you pay a different dollar-per-watt rate, depending on whether your toaster was made by the same company that owns the power plant? The problem with allowing special arrangements it that companies can--and do--use them in anticompetitive and manipulative ways.

Because net paths can be congested, there can be many different ways at different costs to deliver the same bits, and different net applications have different sensitivities to lag/loss, the electrons/bits analogy isn't very applicable. Let ISPs try to abuse their momentary position. They're newish businesses in a rapidly-changing market and technological environment. Not one of them has the same "single provider at…

>They're newish businesses in a rapidly-changing market and technological environment. Not one of them has the same "single provider at any cost" monopoly that phone companies had when the Title II telecom regulatory regime was designed.

On the contrary, almost all of them have that monopoly, oftentimes to the point where they've negotiated with exclusivity arrangements with municipalities. This means that even if Google, Apple, Netflix, etc. are willing and able to to lay down their own infrastructure, they're prevented from doing so by the government. If that doesn't make ISPs deserving of Title II regulation, I don't know what does.

Re: Net neutrality is a “Taliban-like issue”, says Europe’s top digital policymaker

#42
post #30

It's pretty offensive that people are using 'Taliban' and 'Isis' as throwaway rhetoric to collect political points. Unless the people in question are throwing gay people from buildings or killing girls for attending school, then no, it's not a Taliban like issue.

If supporting net neutrality is Taliban-like, his remarks are decidedly nazi-like - industry first, freedom is for fools, etc.

Re: Net neutrality is a “Taliban-like issue”, says Europe’s top digital policymaker

#43
post #18
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Net neutrality advocates have never, ever wanted to limit what you're allowed to pay for as a consumer." I'd like to pay $3/month for my Netflix traffic to not count towards any caps. Is that allowed? Now, can I ask my ISP to just bill Netflix, who (with more customers than any US fixed-wire ISP) can negotiate something less than $3/month?

Data caps do not exist for non-mobile Internet connections in Germany. The speed of the Internet is still increasing. We are at a point where i don't even care about getting more. Bandwidths of 250mbit are announced to come to the market in the coming years. I can live with stable 50mbit. The real problem are rural areas where people are stuck with 2mbit/256kbit lines and throwing away net neutrality will not change…

During my training I knew a guy whose ISP sent him a letter threatening to cancel his contract if he kept taking the "flat rate" literally. Admittedly, that was one of the really cheap ISPs whose business model was selling "flat rate" accounts to people who would most likely never make substantial use of them.

Also, some ISPs have at least the option in their contracts to throttle the bandwidth after a certain amount of traffic. AFAIK, no ISP has used that option yet, so it has not been challenged in court.

People living in rural areas do have problem, indeed. I know a woman who until a year ago was stuck with freaking ISDN. There are many cases of rural communities pretty much begging the Telekom (Germany's largest ISP, I think) to hook them up with DSL, the Telekom ignoring their requests until the moment those communities start talking with some other ISP. The moment that happens, Telekom will hook them up with DSL faster than anyone can say "Internet".

Re: Net neutrality is a “Taliban-like issue”, says Europe’s top digital policymaker

#44

Oettinger's rhetoric is ridiculous hyperbole. Taliban? Huh? Its a shame because he is making what I consider to be a reasonable point: there are use-cases where traffic prioritization makes sense.

All his examples require guarantees, not just priority. All of these examples are therefore unsuitable for a packet switched network.

Whoever needs such services should get a fixed line (real or virtual) that needs to be implemented at a lower layer than anything that the net neutrality debate is all about.

And for automotive communication, the "fixed line" problem is a physical one, since wireless communication is by definition a shared medium. Better just make cars not depend on guaranteed connectivity in the first place.

Re: Net neutrality is a “Taliban-like issue”, says Europe’s top digital policymaker

#45
post #8

I notice that he does not at any point explain in any way why net neutrality as an "issue" (whatever that means) is "Taliban-like" (whatever that means). He's not even trying to be believable. Not even trying to make a serious argument. He therefore deserves scorn.

Oettinger is not exactly known for being a master of the "serious argument" or for his intimidating intellectual capacity.

Re: Net neutrality is a “Taliban-like issue”, says Europe’s top digital policymaker

#46
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'd like to pay $3/month for my Netflix traffic to not count towards any caps. Is that allowed? No, because it's discriminating against non-Netflix traffic. But there is certainly nothing wrong with paying the market rate for all your traffic to not count towards any caps (i.e. an uncapped connection).

Thank you for the clear, honest answer. So the great-grandparent post is misleading, and those in favor of government-enforced "net neutrality" do want to limit what I am "allowed to pay for as a consumer".

You can't sell yourself as a slave, though too.

Re: Net neutrality is a “Taliban-like issue”, says Europe’s top digital policymaker

#47
post #11

He is so completely full of shit and blatantly trying to use rhetoric to justify the fact that he's going to vote for corporate interests that bought and paid for him. I can't help but get angry about this. What's that fallacy called where you fabricate a problem where there isn't one? Net neutrality advocates have never, ever wanted to limit what you're allowed to pay for as a consumer, and are pretty much unanimous…

"Net neutrality advocates have never, ever wanted to limit what you're allowed to pay for as a consumer." I'd like to pay $3/month for my Netflix traffic to not count towards any caps. Is that allowed? Now, can I ask my ISP to just bill Netflix, who (with more customers than any US fixed-wire ISP) can negotiate something less than $3/month?

In every topic you seem to argue in favour of corporate rights, and against humans.

Why do you hate yourself so much?

Re: Net neutrality is a “Taliban-like issue”, says Europe’s top digital policymaker

#48
post #40
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, nothing is ever too stupid for him, but that's a new low (again).

FWIW, Oettinger is something of an expert in discovering "new lows". He could be really funny if he wasn't in a position where people actually take him serious. It is not surprising he would just parrot the talking points of the telcos. I sometimes wonder, though, if he actually knows what complete BS he is emitting or if he actually believes that (and I am not sure which alternative I would prefer).

My guess would be that despite what they are advocating believes are something you cannot be too tightly bound to as a high ranking government official. But this discussion is becoming increasingly off topic.

Re: Net neutrality is a “Taliban-like issue”, says Europe’s top digital policymaker

#49
post #36
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the Netflix traffic was exempt from your data cap, you would be paying $(Netflix rate)/(Netflix usage) for Netflix, while you would be paying (monthly rate)/(other usage) other usage. That means different rates for different types of data. The core problem that net neutrality addresses is that, in allowing the ISP to charge different rates for different data, they can prioritize data based on their own interest, r…

I think that's a long way of answering my question, "no". Net neutrality advocates do want to restrict what I am "allowed to pay for as a consumer". (Additionally, if I were to start a competitive ISP somewhere, use non-neutral routing as part of my value proposition, and attract willing customers to my service, the regulators would come and fine me, and then perhaps impound my assets and imprison me, because my serv…

You're not allowed to pay someone to kill yourself as well.

Re: Net neutrality is a “Taliban-like issue”, says Europe’s top digital policymaker

#50
post #14
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Net neutrality advocates have never, ever wanted to limit what you're allowed to pay for as a consumer." I'd like to pay $3/month for my Netflix traffic to not count towards any caps. Is that allowed? Now, can I ask my ISP to just bill Netflix, who (with more customers than any US fixed-wire ISP) can negotiate something less than $3/month?

caps? data caps? what is that - Europeans want to know :)

I think they're those funny little hats they wear over in Randistan.
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