Jon Ronson: How a Tweet Can Ruin Your Life • Hacker News Board

Re: Jon Ronson: How a Tweet Can Ruin Your Life

#141

Post by bjornsing » Thu, Mar 05, 2015, 1:20 PM UTC

fpgeek wrote: post #116

theorique wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Not too bad, he's a white male. I'm a black Jewish female." Nice quote here. As you say, it really does make Richards look empathetic. /s But seriously, this is not good for her image.

No, she doesn't look empathetic, but, considering the broader context, how much empathy can you reasonably expect? He lost his job and got a new one "right away" (according to the article). She also lost her job, was bombarded with all kinds of threats (death, rape, etc.), had to go into hiding and still doesn't have a new job (at least as of her interview for the piece). I'm sure she could improve her image if she w…

That, and her own childhood. We tend to relativize bad things in terms of what we've experienced ourselves. If I had seen my father beat the teeth out of my mothers mouth with a hammer I'm not so sure I'd be up in arms about somebody losing their job...

Re: Jon Ronson: How a Tweet Can Ruin Your Life

#142

Post by slowmotiony » Thu, Mar 05, 2015, 1:20 PM UTC

interpol_p wrote: post #127

bobcostas55 wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is threatening about that joke?

That's exactly it. We find it so hard to understand how that joke is threatening. It's almost impossible to imagine. It just sounds like a dumb joke. But look at how Adria describes her feelings in the article: “Have you ever had an altercation at school and you could feel the hairs rise up on your back?” she asked me. “You felt fear?” I asked. “Danger,” she said. “Clearly my body was telling me, ‘You are unsafe.’” I…

Sometimes I can't believe what I am reading here on hacker news.

Re: Jon Ronson: How a Tweet Can Ruin Your Life

#143

Post by mtrimpe » Thu, Mar 05, 2015, 1:21 PM UTC

josefresco wrote: post #64

bluehex wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Was the joke even sexist at all or was it just sexual in nature? Inappropriate sure, but that's a pretty big difference in my book.

Sexual != sexist. I feel like this concept needs more attention. Anecdotally, I hear just as many sexual jokes from females as I do males - the concept that "they feel comfortable" and happen to be surrounded by similar people (while/male) does not make it sexist, or even threatening.

Involuntary sexualization is sexist though.

What if the picture on screen was a woman saying 'I want to be judged on my merits not my gender' and the guys were saying 'Nice tits' out loud and laughing? Would that be sexism?

I'd unequivocally say yes and, while inarguably less offensive, the dongle joke was still similarly sexist.

Re: Jon Ronson: How a Tweet Can Ruin Your Life

#144

Post by tomp » Thu, Mar 05, 2015, 1:21 PM UTC

interpol_p wrote: post #127

bobcostas55 wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is threatening about that joke?

That's exactly it. We find it so hard to understand how that joke is threatening. It's almost impossible to imagine. It just sounds like a dumb joke. But look at how Adria describes her feelings in the article: “Have you ever had an altercation at school and you could feel the hairs rise up on your back?” she asked me. “You felt fear?” I asked. “Danger,” she said. “Clearly my body was telling me, ‘You are unsafe.’” I…

Of course it's possible for women to feel this way. It's possible for men to feel this way as well. That doesn't make it reasonable, or something an emotionally mature person would feel and act upon.

Re: Jon Ronson: How a Tweet Can Ruin Your Life

#145

Post by lurknomore » Thu, Mar 05, 2015, 1:21 PM UTC

interpol_p wrote: post #127

bobcostas55 wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is threatening about that joke?

That's exactly it. We find it so hard to understand how that joke is threatening. It's almost impossible to imagine. It just sounds like a dumb joke. But look at how Adria describes her feelings in the article: “Have you ever had an altercation at school and you could feel the hairs rise up on your back?” she asked me. “You felt fear?” I asked. “Danger,” she said. “Clearly my body was telling me, ‘You are unsafe.’” I…

If your mental/emotional state is at odds with the reality of your circumstances, therapy is in order, not scolding the hapless bystanders you blame for your delusions.

Re: Jon Ronson: How a Tweet Can Ruin Your Life

#146

Post by fromtheoutside » Thu, Mar 05, 2015, 1:22 PM UTC

So there is this internet hate machine and it's terrible. The cyber bullying crimes (ok, that's probably free speech in the US) and insults are way off, totally disproportionate.

But the way she acted, taking a photo and publicly tweeting it? That's an attack, I'm not judging, maybe it was right to take direct action. I'm just saying if you escalate things you got to be ready for the retaliation. Especially if you are not in a position of power. And let's be honest, against culture, against public opinion and the internet hate machine, most of us lose.

Re: Jon Ronson: How a Tweet Can Ruin Your Life

#147

Post by hitekker » Thu, Mar 05, 2015, 1:22 PM UTC

interpol_p wrote: post #92

near wrote: post #44

The world is replete with examples of why you should never use your real name with your online identity in any way (although in this case, the guy's employer found out over a photograph; which is even more troubling.) If there's anyone worse than Adria in this story, it's both Hank's and Adria's former employers. You don't destroy a person's life over a comment or a blackmail threat. But as they say, if corporations…

I don't think it's a lack of empathy. It feels like anger at a system that caters to men in a field she very much enjoys and wants to be included in. Unfortunately Hank happens to be a fairly good guy who is defended by this system and oblivious to it. He's an unintended casualty of her anger at something bigger. I had many of the same reactions as you when I read her words. But I've been trying very hard to imagine…

"But I can totally see how she could have been driven to do it, and I can even see how she would feel now — after all she's gone through — that she should not have to apologise for it."

You can understand, yes, but that hatred-- and allow me to say that again-- hatred is not something that we can excuse on the basis of race alone. Adria really hates Hank; hated him so much that when she called down the twitter brigades, she happily tweeted something along the lines of "I feel like Joan Of Arc."

Hank found a new job because, fundamentally, he was innocent. Because he did not intend for anyone to get hurt, and did not join in the bandwagon that later attacked Adria. He even apologized to Adria, who still blames him for everything and showed absolutely no remorse.

Some believe that systems of oppression don't exist and pin everything on the individual, e.g., racists. And then there are people who believe those systems are all that exist and that any action undertaken by a member of that system is the fault of the system, e.g. other kinds of racists.

Regardless of where you stand on the spectrum, there are certain actions that are inexcusable.

The intent and desire to destroy an innocent's life is one of them.

Re: Jon Ronson: How a Tweet Can Ruin Your Life

#148

Post by edw519 » Thu, Mar 05, 2015, 1:23 PM UTC

near wrote: post #44

The world is replete with examples of why you should never use your real name with your online identity in any way (although in this case, the guy's employer found out over a photograph; which is even more troubling.) If there's anyone worse than Adria in this story, it's both Hank's and Adria's former employers. You don't destroy a person's life over a comment or a blackmail threat. But as they say, if corporations…

why you should never use your real name with your online identity in any way

I believe exactly the opposite. People say horrible things hiding behind anonymity. Those of us who freely identify ourselves actually attempt (albeit sometimes feebly) to talk to others as if we were in person. If we just treated each other on-line like we did in person, most of this shit would never happen.

- Proud self-identified member of Hacker News for 8 years. (see profile)

EDIT 1: I love engaging others on-line when I know who they are (the way HN was for a long time) much more than anonymous strangers. I would be phony if I felt this way and remained anonymous

EDIT 2: Why would anyone want to work for someone who would fire them for gossip, on-line or otherwise? Firing is almost always an extreme overreaction and a clear demonstration of one's inability to run their business. Fuck 'em. Find another job with someone a little more righteous. (FWIW, things I say in person in the workplace are probably much more offensive to those who don't get it than anything I'd ever say on-line.)

Re: Jon Ronson: How a Tweet Can Ruin Your Life

#149

Post by celticninja » Thu, Mar 05, 2015, 1:24 PM UTC

hnyc wrote: post #133

celticninja wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

can you provide any supporting facts that Jon Ronson lied? I mean you say he lied about hsi reasons for interviewing her, i.e. said it was about sexism. However he has not lied about what she said or what actually happened. You do not deny that he has quoted her faithfully. To me it seems that she was expecting that her minority status would protect her, she goes to lengths to point out she is black, female and jewis…

In my opinion, her upbringing and life have everything to do with this. If it were not for how she was brought up and how she was treated during her life, she may or may not have done what she did. The only reason is not to try to engineer some sympathy, but there are other possible reasons as well. If her backstory was a backstory full of mental illness, would you respond differently to what had happened? Now, I'm n…

but if her background applies then surely so does his, did he struggle in his upbringing? is there anything in his early life that made him into the person he is today? sure there are but we dont get that side because the sympathy that the writer is trying to evoke is with one side. If they made both sides appear human then they cant have an evil doer and a clear cut good guy.

And i agree our past shapes us, shaped both people in this debate, but we only hear her side because that is who the writer wants you to sympathise with. Hank is just a namelss white male with no life before this incident.

Re: Jon Ronson: How a Tweet Can Ruin Your Life

#150

Post by mercurial » Thu, Mar 05, 2015, 1:24 PM UTC

interpol_p wrote: post #127

bobcostas55 wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is threatening about that joke?

That's exactly it. We find it so hard to understand how that joke is threatening. It's almost impossible to imagine. It just sounds like a dumb joke. But look at how Adria describes her feelings in the article: “Have you ever had an altercation at school and you could feel the hairs rise up on your back?” she asked me. “You felt fear?” I asked. “Danger,” she said. “Clearly my body was telling me, ‘You are unsafe.’” I…

The usual response to danger is flee or fight. She didn't flee. She didn't confront them. She shamed them publicly instead (which made it considerably more likely that they would take revenge physically instead). What is more likely, that she did this because she felt threatened, or because she felt like she could use her status to get back at the system?

Not to mention the part where she herself tweets dick jokes.