French Ideal of Bicycle-Sharing Meets Reality • Hacker News Board

Re: French Ideal of Bicycle-Sharing Meets Reality

#21

Post by moai » Sat, Oct 31, 2009, 7:58 PM UTC

ugh wrote: post #4

bjelkeman-again wrote: post #2

Daily use averages 50,000 to 150,000 trips, depending on the season, and the bicycles have proved to be a hit with tourists, who help power the economy. At least 8,000 bikes have been stolen and 8,000 damaged so badly that they had to be replaced — nearly 80 percent of the initial stock, Mr. Asséraf said. JCDecaux must repair some 1,500 bicycles a day. It would be interesting to see what the comparable numbers are in…

This article seems oddly focused on France. I also know of similar efforts in Germany. And I have seen similar bikes in Spain. It would be much more interesting to get a European perspective.

http://www.bikemi.com

In Milan (Italy) works very well

Re: French Ideal of Bicycle-Sharing Meets Reality

#22

Post by ugh » Sat, Oct 31, 2009, 8:30 PM UTC

Tiktaalik wrote: post #19

Anyone whose owned a bike knows that maintenance is actually a pretty big deal (it's not difficult, but you need constant vigilance) and that should have been a huge warning sign before Paris started putting this plan into action. Aside from that the vandalism situation compounds the problem. The class struggle aspect to it in France is interesting. I'm not sure that issue would be as bad in other regions, but surely…

I know that in all big cities in Germany bikes are widely used. (We use bikes to go to places, we don’t go to places to use our bikes :) Many don’t even own a car. I cannot imagine that the bike infrastructure in Europe is really all that bad. Such rental services are only a extra. And I have read other articles that seem to indicate that such services work quite well. Nothing about the service in France, per se, but about other services.

Re: French Ideal of Bicycle-Sharing Meets Reality

#23

Post by JeffJenkins » Sat, Oct 31, 2009, 8:32 PM UTC

memetichazard wrote: post #11

a-priori wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Switzerland also has a bike rental program in several cities ( http://www.suisseroule.ch ), and students can borrow them for free (insured against their university account). During the summer, I saw people riding those bikes around all the time, but I have no idea how popular the program is. You can also rent bikes at all the major train stations.

Not in Europe, but in Montreal (Canada), we've got Bixi bikes ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BIXI ) and it has similar issues with damage and theft. In addition to the issues mentioned in the wiki page, there were also problems with double billing... but it still seems to be doing well regardless.

I was there recently and it didn't sound anywhere near as bad as the article. And I could see people riding the bikes everywhere

Re: French Ideal of Bicycle-Sharing Meets Reality

#24

Post by alain94040 » Sat, Oct 31, 2009, 8:40 PM UTC

barrkel wrote: post #20

Comment on the ground - quoted in the article - is that the scheme is "not a complete success". But reading the article as a whole, you'd hardly think that - you'd think it's a complete failure.

Which shows that not every article you read in the press is accurate.

It's easy to use a bunch of misleading statistics, put them out of context, and paint a situation that sounds much worse than it really is.

What I can say for sure is that I know many people in Paris who love the program. You must understand that it's a much better alternative than owning a bike. You can really pick up the bike only on the segment you need them for. Normally, you move around Paris by metro, but there is often some distance ("the last mile") that a bike can do best. But you certainly wouldn't want to do your entire trip by bike...

I think the article exaggerates the cost per bike ($3,500) and the 10,000 bikes/day under repair sounds plain bogus. And then there is no accounting for how long the program has been in place, when they say that 80% of the original bikes have been damaged.

Re: French Ideal of Bicycle-Sharing Meets Reality

#25

Post by Tichy » Sat, Oct 31, 2009, 8:50 PM UTC

ugh wrote: post #22

Tiktaalik wrote: post #19

Anyone whose owned a bike knows that maintenance is actually a pretty big deal (it's not difficult, but you need constant vigilance) and that should have been a huge warning sign before Paris started putting this plan into action. Aside from that the vandalism situation compounds the problem. The class struggle aspect to it in France is interesting. I'm not sure that issue would be as bad in other regions, but surely…

I know that in all big cities in Germany bikes are widely used. (We use bikes to go to places, we don’t go to places to use our bikes :) Many don’t even own a car. I cannot imagine that the bike infrastructure in Europe is really all that bad. Such rental services are only a extra. And I have read other articles that seem to indicate that such services work quite well. Nothing about the service in France, per se, but…

In Germany the Deutsche Bahn (railways) has bought the provider of such rental bikes. Not sure if they actually make money or if it is just a prestige project. But they have existed for several years now.

The bicycles look so special that stealing them is probably not very tempting. Vandalism might still be a problem, though.

Re: French Ideal of Bicycle-Sharing Meets Reality

#26

Post by Monkeyget » Sat, Oct 31, 2009, 8:52 PM UTC

ugh wrote: post #4

bjelkeman-again wrote: post #2

Daily use averages 50,000 to 150,000 trips, depending on the season, and the bicycles have proved to be a hit with tourists, who help power the economy. At least 8,000 bikes have been stolen and 8,000 damaged so badly that they had to be replaced — nearly 80 percent of the initial stock, Mr. Asséraf said. JCDecaux must repair some 1,500 bicycles a day. It would be interesting to see what the comparable numbers are in…

This article seems oddly focused on France. I also know of similar efforts in Germany. And I have seen similar bikes in Spain. It would be much more interesting to get a European perspective.

Brussels too : http://en.villo.be/

Re: French Ideal of Bicycle-Sharing Meets Reality

#27

Post by gommm » Sat, Oct 31, 2009, 8:55 PM UTC

The city where I studied, Rennes in France, has such a scheme in place since about 9 years ago and there haven't been any vandalism that I could see...

One thing though is that a lot of people preferred their own bikes because the bikes were not all that nice to ride (and I guess that Rennes being a small city, it's not all that useful to be able to get a bike on the last leg of a commute)...

Re: French Ideal of Bicycle-Sharing Meets Reality

#28

Post by abalashov » Sat, Oct 31, 2009, 8:59 PM UTC

I remember from the summer I spent in Innsbruck, Austria (my dad was teaching on a summer abroad program for American students) in 2003 that there were hundreds of bikes standing on orderly bike racks or improvisationally leaning against various structures on nearly every nontrivial street.

The biggest surprise to someone just coming from America is that very few of them were locked, and it did not seem to be a major concern for anyone. I remember asking if the bikes commonly get stolen and the responses seemed to suggest that while nothing is wholly impossible in principle, in practice the answer was no.

Innsbruck is not a wholly homogenous city, though it is certainly much smaller than Paris (+/- 100k, all told); there are lots of foreigners, and in particular, a fair number of Turkish, Yugoslav and miscellaneous immigrants, many of whom would certainly be characterised as poor and/or working in low-wage service industry. There's plenty of graffiti, some evidence of other kinds of vandalism, and other such things.

Yet somehow, the bikes don't seem to get stolen, and nobody has any qualms about just leaving theirs outside, or in the hallway near their apartment, etc.

I am not sure what to conclude from this, other than that these things vary greatly by the prevailing mood of the society.

Re: French Ideal of Bicycle-Sharing Meets Reality

#29

Post by chaosmachine » Sat, Oct 31, 2009, 9:03 PM UTC

gommm wrote: post #27

The city where I studied, Rennes in France, has such a scheme in place since about 9 years ago and there haven't been any vandalism that I could see... One thing though is that a lot of people preferred their own bikes because the bikes were not all that nice to ride (and I guess that Rennes being a small city, it's not all that useful to be able to get a bike on the last leg of a commute)...

We have a similar bicycle share program in Ottawa. I haven't seen any vandalism. The bikes always look clean and new. Possibly because only a few people use them.

Re: French Ideal of Bicycle-Sharing Meets Reality

#30

Post by anigbrowl » Sat, Oct 31, 2009, 9:36 PM UTC

rokhayakebe wrote: post #6

Tichy wrote: post #3

"Many of the specially designed bikes, which cost $3,500 each" What were they thinking??? Surely it must be possible to design a cheaper bike for that purpose? The electronics shouldn't be much more complicated than an average mobile phone?

Over-engineering. They could have done the same with bikes that cost significantly less.

Quite. In Amsterdam, people mostly ride boring-looking, old-fashioned but very durable bikes, rather than being particular objects of desire. On the other hand, no public program is immune from vandals or the disaffected - some of whom are truly desperate but many of whom are just trolls.