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French Ideal of Bicycle-Sharing Meets Reality

nytimes.com

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Re: French Ideal of Bicycle-Sharing Meets Reality

#11

Post by memetichazard »

a-priori wrote: post #8
ugh wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This article seems oddly focused on France. I also know of similar efforts in Germany. And I have seen similar bikes in Spain. It would be much more interesting to get a European perspective.

Switzerland also has a bike rental program in several cities ( http://www.suisseroule.ch ), and students can borrow them for free (insured against their university account). During the summer, I saw people riding those bikes around all the time, but I have no idea how popular the program is. You can also rent bikes at all the major train stations.

Not in Europe, but in Montreal (Canada), we've got Bixi bikes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BIXI) and it has similar issues with damage and theft. In addition to the issues mentioned in the wiki page, there were also problems with double billing... but it still seems to be doing well regardless.

Re: French Ideal of Bicycle-Sharing Meets Reality

#12

Post by gaius »

rokhayakebe wrote: post #6
Tichy wrote: post #3

"Many of the specially designed bikes, which cost $3,500 each" What were they thinking??? Surely it must be possible to design a cheaper bike for that purpose? The electronics shouldn't be much more complicated than an average mobile phone?

Over-engineering. They could have done the same with bikes that cost significantly less.

It's kinda like how London buses are made by Mercedes. You might think that's an extravagance - but if things are to be used hard every day, it's a false economy to cut corners up front (unless you go so cheap they're effectively disposable).

Re: French Ideal of Bicycle-Sharing Meets Reality

#13

Post by Luc »

Tichy wrote: post #3

"Many of the specially designed bikes, which cost $3,500 each" What were they thinking??? Surely it must be possible to design a cheaper bike for that purpose? The electronics shouldn't be much more complicated than an average mobile phone?

When it looks too crazy to be true, it probably isn't true.

Wikipedia: 'The price per bicycle has been variously stated as US$1,300 (if provided by JCDecaux), €300, or US$3,460 apiece'.

300 euro seems like a reasonable price for just the bicycle itself, the other figures must include other costs. Also, let's not forget that the scheme is subsidized by giving JCDecaux a monopoly on a lot of advertising space in the city, so even at a high cost it may still be profitable to them.

Re: French Ideal of Bicycle-Sharing Meets Reality

#14

Post by Luc »

gaius wrote: post #12
rokhayakebe wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Over-engineering. They could have done the same with bikes that cost significantly less.

It's kinda like how London buses are made by Mercedes. You might think that's an extravagance - but if things are to be used hard every day, it's a false economy to cut corners up front (unless you go so cheap they're effectively disposable).

Many delivery vans are made by Mercedes, too. There's nothing extravagant about them - they are just good quality delivery vans.

There's Lamborghini tractors, too! http://www.lamborghini-tractors.com/

Re: French Ideal of Bicycle-Sharing Meets Reality

#15

Post by faragon »

bjelkeman-again wrote: post #2

Daily use averages 50,000 to 150,000 trips, depending on the season, and the bicycles have proved to be a hit with tourists, who help power the economy. At least 8,000 bikes have been stolen and 8,000 damaged so badly that they had to be replaced — nearly 80 percent of the initial stock, Mr. Asséraf said. JCDecaux must repair some 1,500 bicycles a day. It would be interesting to see what the comparable numbers are in…

In Barcelona (Spain) there is a similar service, called "Bicing"( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicing), which I use for going to work and moving through the city (30 euro/year). It allows me to save above 400 euro/year on metro/underground/bus tickets, while enjoying the trips.

About vandalism and bike maintenance: also there is vandalism, you can see stolen bikes parked in the middle of nowhere, some homeless using it for moving their things, etc. However, its impact, in my opinion, it's much lower that the shown in Paris. Most people in Barcelona, except some car drivers, LOVE the services, and treat the bikes with respect. Obviously, by its use, the bikes have to be repaired (tires, brakes, gears, seat clip, etc.), but the abuse is quite low.

The punishment for losing a bike is 200 euro, so I asume that it is what a bike costs.

As curiosity, there is a photo of the Bicing service into Joel's "The Duct Tape Programmer" blog entry (http://www.joelonsoftware.com/items/2009/09/23.html)

Re: French Ideal of Bicycle-Sharing Meets Reality

#16

Post by dotcoma »

bjelkeman-again wrote: post #2

Daily use averages 50,000 to 150,000 trips, depending on the season, and the bicycles have proved to be a hit with tourists, who help power the economy. At least 8,000 bikes have been stolen and 8,000 damaged so badly that they had to be replaced — nearly 80 percent of the initial stock, Mr. Asséraf said. JCDecaux must repair some 1,500 bicycles a day. It would be interesting to see what the comparable numbers are in…

I saw no vandalism and no problems at all when I used the service in Paris last month.

Re: French Ideal of Bicycle-Sharing Meets Reality

#17

Post by notauser »

gaius wrote: post #12
rokhayakebe wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Over-engineering. They could have done the same with bikes that cost significantly less.

It's kinda like how London buses are made by Mercedes. You might think that's an extravagance - but if things are to be used hard every day, it's a false economy to cut corners up front (unless you go so cheap they're effectively disposable).

Wikipedia lists 9 1/2 manufacturers of buses currently in use in London:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_bus_types_used_in_Londo...

(Not to dispute your main point though. The buses here seem to last pretty well.)

Re: French Ideal of Bicycle-Sharing Meets Reality

#18

Post by mcd »

snewe wrote: post #5

Why didn't they just subsidize bike and bike lock purchases for individuals?

That is what I also thought. From the article:

> Many of the specially designed bikes, which cost $3,500 each,

They have thought extremely hard how to make the bike so expensive. A fancy normal bike costs $200. How the hell do you pay that much for a bike?

I paid $5000 for my car...

Re: French Ideal of Bicycle-Sharing Meets Reality

#19

Post by Tiktaalik »

Anyone whose owned a bike knows that maintenance is actually a pretty big deal (it's not difficult, but you need constant vigilance) and that should have been a huge warning sign before Paris started putting this plan into action.

Aside from that the vandalism situation compounds the problem. The class struggle aspect to it in France is interesting. I'm not sure that issue would be as bad in other regions, but surely vandalism would exist at some level everywhere.

Personally I would much rather like to see governments seek an actual policy on bike storage and encourage people to buy their own bikes. As has been discussed before, in most cities there has been little to no thought put into where people will store their bikes at home or at work. I think this is a key driver why many don't see cycling as a sensible option for their commutes. Until this issue is adequately solved, cycling will be inaccessible to many.

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