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London's poor fetish: commodifying working class culture

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Re: London's poor fetish: commodifying working class culture

#81

Post by darkmighty »

ForHackernews wrote: post #76
semi-extrinsic wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I, for one, believe that continued economic growth needs continued growth in global energy production, and that we will be unable to maintain this growth over the next century for thermodynamic reasons. This will be the big shit-hits-the-fan moment of the coming years, not climate change or wars. We literally have to throw centuries of economics out the window.

Solar energy is essentially untapped today (relative to output from fossil fuels), and we are in no danger of exhausting the supply of nuclear fuel in the near term.[0] Eventually global energy production will taper off, but I would bet strongly against it being within the next century. [0] http://www.world-nuclear.org/info/Nuclear-Fuel-Cycle/Uranium...

Yea, there is no "thermodynamic reason" for a limited supply of energy. Even if we started expending too much energy in the atmosphere (say if we found an efficient way to fusion), we could pump this excess heat to space, if it would ever come to such an extreme.

Re: London's poor fetish: commodifying working class culture

#83

Post by ripb »

the_af wrote: post #79
ripb wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are you taking issue with? Keep in mind we're discussing the UK.

The middle class cannot give what is not theirs to give. What if the working class stopped working?

Their taxes are theirs. It's through generosity that social programs are created and paid for through the general revenue.

Although admittedly it has now backfired, as it's now easier to have children on welfare than it is for many working would-be parents.

The working class WILL stop working and in the very near future, as basic jobs such as checkout staff, or taxis, become automated. It's an impending crisis.

Re: London's poor fetish: commodifying working class culture

#84

Post by sandworm »

walshemj wrote: post #50
sandworm wrote: post #41

"At the same time our doctors, teachers, university professors, architects, lawyers, solicitors and probation officers are rendered impotent. " What does it say about a society where lawyers, doctors and professors are considered "middle class"? These are educated professionals. They earn, or should earn, higher-than-average wages. But today such professions are looked down upon. Why would anyone want to be a doctor?…

A GP (family doctor) in the UK earns 5 or 6 times the median wage with a Final Salary Pension

That's my point. Earning a wage 5 or 6 times higher than average is still considered by the OP to be middle class. Something is wrong when the "middle" also includes professionals who earn far higher than average. Western society, particularly London, is too focused on the elites. Everyone who isn't a banker is balled up in the "middle class" catch-all.

For instance, a tax break by government to help "the middle class" shouldn't be helping lawyers and doctors. They aren't middle class. Progressive taxation or benefits should not aid those earning 200k/year.

Re: London's poor fetish: commodifying working class culture

#85

Post by amagumori »

semi-extrinsic wrote: post #58
brainpan wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> what gives the author the right to blanketly declare the lives of the middle class to be souless, meaningless, and that their jobs are bullshit? Well, that's what modern life is under the TINA regime[1]. A whole society of people who've sold out every heroic ideal humans have ever conceived, in order to live as cells inside corporate organs of a hyper-capitalistic organism that would collapse if it stopped expandin…

I, for one, believe that continued economic growth needs continued growth in global energy production, and that we will be unable to maintain this growth over the next century for thermodynamic reasons. This will be the big shit-hits-the-fan moment of the coming years, not climate change or wars. We literally have to throw centuries of economics out the window.

LOL, "thermodynamic reasons". citation needed

Re: London's poor fetish: commodifying working class culture

#86

Post by amagumori »

vacri wrote: post #68
brainpan wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> what gives the author the right to blanketly declare the lives of the middle class to be souless, meaningless, and that their jobs are bullshit? Well, that's what modern life is under the TINA regime[1]. A whole society of people who've sold out every heroic ideal humans have ever conceived, in order to live as cells inside corporate organs of a hyper-capitalistic organism that would collapse if it stopped expandin…

Welcome to life in hell. You can get defensive and self-righteous when people point out the mass hypocrisy and delusion and error in all our lives, but it doesn't change the truth that we are all living in an awful state, as cowards and lapdogs of the hyper-capitalist system that gives us life today, even as it guarantees death in the future. Rousing rhetoric, but it doesn't change the fact that while it's shit to be…

oh, the "$1/day is better than slavery, you should be happy!" guy. of course.

Re: London's poor fetish: commodifying working class culture

#87

Post by vacri »

amagumori wrote: post #86
vacri wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Welcome to life in hell. You can get defensive and self-righteous when people point out the mass hypocrisy and delusion and error in all our lives, but it doesn't change the truth that we are all living in an awful state, as cowards and lapdogs of the hyper-capitalist system that gives us life today, even as it guarantees death in the future. Rousing rhetoric, but it doesn't change the fact that while it's shit to be…

oh, the "$1/day is better than slavery, you should be happy!" guy. of course.

If only there was a middle-ground between the GP's grandiose demagoguery and your clumsy strawmanning, there might be some discussion that helps find a solution instead of just lobbing insults at those whom you assume are your opponents.

Re: London's poor fetish: commodifying working class culture

#88

Post by pjc50 »

the_af wrote: post #79
ripb wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are you taking issue with? Keep in mind we're discussing the UK.

The middle class cannot give what is not theirs to give. What if the working class stopped working?

Well, what if the middle class stopped working? Have we forgotten the teachers strikes? Admittedly it doesn't have the same immediate effect as the miner's strike turning the lights out. But healthcare and education are very stereotypical middle class occupations.

Re: London's poor fetish: commodifying working class culture

#89

Post by pjc50 »

l33tbro wrote: post #21

The worst thing about this article is how hilariously smug and self-assured the tone is. Seriously, what gives the author the right to blanketly declare the lives of the middle class to be souless, meaningless, and that their jobs are bullshit? How does he not realize that he is projecting his own insecurity and outdated ideas about "authenticity" on to these people. Honestly, I've found that most people don't really…

blanketly declare the lives of the middle class to be souless, meaningless, and that their jobs are bullshit

This is a traditional part of the British class system from at least the 60s onwards. There's an entire pundit industry in stating this in lifestyle supplements, pop science, and inoffensive indie music. It's something that we recite, not something actionable. It's like going to church to top up your existential guilt.

Re: London's poor fetish: commodifying working class culture

#90

Post by eli_gottlieb »

brainpan wrote: post #34
l33tbro wrote: post #21

The worst thing about this article is how hilariously smug and self-assured the tone is. Seriously, what gives the author the right to blanketly declare the lives of the middle class to be souless, meaningless, and that their jobs are bullshit? How does he not realize that he is projecting his own insecurity and outdated ideas about "authenticity" on to these people. Honestly, I've found that most people don't really…

> what gives the author the right to blanketly declare the lives of the middle class to be souless, meaningless, and that their jobs are bullshit? Well, that's what modern life is under the TINA regime[1]. A whole society of people who've sold out every heroic ideal humans have ever conceived, in order to live as cells inside corporate organs of a hyper-capitalistic organism that would collapse if it stopped expandin…

>We could be taking a new course right now, to live in idealistic ways, in sustainable ways, in heroic ways. But we all just quit that notion before we start, because it's just too hard, and we distract ourselves with the greatest media spectacle of entertaining diversions and political issues every conceived.

Oh. You quit?

>Welcome to life in hell. You can get defensive and self-righteous when people point out the mass hypocrisy and delusion and error in all our lives, but it doesn't change the truth that we are all living in an awful state, as cowards and lapdogs of the hyper-capitalist system that gives us life today, even as it guarantees death in the future.

No, the working classes are actually revolting, because the system has guaranteed them death today.

All kinds of things are actually happening around the world to deal with humanity's problems, and here you're complaining instead of contributing.

Get back to work!

>I figure that a not-yet born post-human super-predator will take the best of human intelligence and anti-entropic principles and incorporate them, and destroy the rest. Or some already-existing higher powers will swoop in at some point in the future to harvest the best of our anti-entropic principles, and destroy the rest of us.

I'm right here, and it really boggles me why people like you keep thinking people like me would destroy you ;-).

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