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London's poor fetish: commodifying working class culture

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Re: London's poor fetish: commodifying working class culture

#51

Post by walshemj »

ripb wrote: post #24
happyscrappy wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except Americans despise snobbery or snobbish attitudes of any kind, its almost taboo, while the Brits embrace it.

>Except Americans despise snobbery or snobbish attitudes of any kind, its almost taboo, while the Brits embrace it. Ah, making sweeping generalisations of one demographic containing about 80m people and another of 330m people. Bound to be a good tactic.

From what I hear of the DAR and the WASP establishment that's not true its still major deal the Jeb Bush is a catholic.

Re: London's poor fetish: commodifying working class culture

#52

Post by Retric »

brainpan wrote: post #34
l33tbro wrote: post #21

The worst thing about this article is how hilariously smug and self-assured the tone is. Seriously, what gives the author the right to blanketly declare the lives of the middle class to be souless, meaningless, and that their jobs are bullshit? How does he not realize that he is projecting his own insecurity and outdated ideas about "authenticity" on to these people. Honestly, I've found that most people don't really…

> what gives the author the right to blanketly declare the lives of the middle class to be souless, meaningless, and that their jobs are bullshit? Well, that's what modern life is under the TINA regime[1]. A whole society of people who've sold out every heroic ideal humans have ever conceived, in order to live as cells inside corporate organs of a hyper-capitalistic organism that would collapse if it stopped expandin…

Assuming that was not intended as a parity.

Capitalism does not require net growth. People, things, culture and organisations decay. People get old, Teens in 2016 are not going to dress the same, listen to the same songs, or even read the same books from the 2015. The is a long cycle of banks flat out failing in good times and in bad. Clothing, Houses, Bridges, and Roads need to be replaced etc.

Sure, in steady state economy's there is a different balance and fewer people get to retire early. However, lower returns and later retirements does not break capitalism. Just look at Japan's falling GDP.

Re: London's poor fetish: commodifying working class culture

#53

Post by chrisseaton »

sandworm wrote: post #41

"At the same time our doctors, teachers, university professors, architects, lawyers, solicitors and probation officers are rendered impotent. " What does it say about a society where lawyers, doctors and professors are considered "middle class"? These are educated professionals. They earn, or should earn, higher-than-average wages. But today such professions are looked down upon. Why would anyone want to be a doctor?…

In the UK middle class does not mean middle income.

Re: London's poor fetish: commodifying working class culture

#54

Post by littletimmy »

brainpan wrote: post #34
l33tbro wrote: post #21

The worst thing about this article is how hilariously smug and self-assured the tone is. Seriously, what gives the author the right to blanketly declare the lives of the middle class to be souless, meaningless, and that their jobs are bullshit? How does he not realize that he is projecting his own insecurity and outdated ideas about "authenticity" on to these people. Honestly, I've found that most people don't really…

> what gives the author the right to blanketly declare the lives of the middle class to be souless, meaningless, and that their jobs are bullshit? Well, that's what modern life is under the TINA regime[1]. A whole society of people who've sold out every heroic ideal humans have ever conceived, in order to live as cells inside corporate organs of a hyper-capitalistic organism that would collapse if it stopped expandin…

I find what you wrote interesting yet it sounds very alien. It is probably just my indoctrinated brain. Can you recommend any good books or readings that echo these thoughts in more depth?

Re: London's poor fetish: commodifying working class culture

#55

Post by walshemj »

Crito wrote: post #46
EliRivers wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most londoners I know are in constant buzz just to keep flowing. You don't get what the article is talking about, but you can turn around and say something as hard to interpret as that? Is this some kind of drugs reference, or are you saying people work hard, or they're always excited? What the hell is "flowing"?

I think he means that people in London are chronic drinkers, as a way of coping with their environment/existence.

Well compared to a Lot of Americans we are

Re: London's poor fetish: commodifying working class culture

#56

Post by walshemj »

notahacker wrote: post #16
JimboOmega wrote: post #8

I'm always reluctant to embrace something that is basically bemoaning "cultural malaise", especially with a rather obvious left-wing bent, BUT, it's very well written and offers several good points. In particular, this bit: "That their accent, speech patterns and knowledge of institutions, by their very deployment in the job market, perpetuate norms that exclude those who were born outside of the cultural elite." It'…

I dunno, personally I thought it was dreadful even by the standards of left-wing articles bemoaning cultural malaise, some of which at least manage consistency. Hipsters are attacked both for being "unable to do anything useful, alienated from physical labor" and because "never will they face the grinding monotony of mindless work", for taking unpaid internships and for having mortgages. They apparently go to food ma…

And for a lot of jobs (especially the high status ones) now or and more employers are demanding that you work as an unpaid intern.

Re: London's poor fetish: commodifying working class culture

#57

Post by chrisseaton »

vinceguidry wrote: post #38
001sky wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

British "middle" class and american "middle class" are really distinct concepts. I wonder how many people commenting on this thread are confusing / conflating them?

I'd be interested in a treatment of those differences. As far as I know, a middle class is simply the class of people that earns enough money to be able to buy a house, save for retirement, and generally shield themselves from the chaos of lower class struggle.

In the US middle class means middle of the income range. In the UK it means a particular social and cultural outlook. It's almost a kind of weird extra dimension of the political spectrum. Hard to explain but you absolutely know it when you see it.

Re: London's poor fetish: commodifying working class culture

#58

Post by semi-extrinsic »

brainpan wrote: post #34
l33tbro wrote: post #21

The worst thing about this article is how hilariously smug and self-assured the tone is. Seriously, what gives the author the right to blanketly declare the lives of the middle class to be souless, meaningless, and that their jobs are bullshit? How does he not realize that he is projecting his own insecurity and outdated ideas about "authenticity" on to these people. Honestly, I've found that most people don't really…

> what gives the author the right to blanketly declare the lives of the middle class to be souless, meaningless, and that their jobs are bullshit? Well, that's what modern life is under the TINA regime[1]. A whole society of people who've sold out every heroic ideal humans have ever conceived, in order to live as cells inside corporate organs of a hyper-capitalistic organism that would collapse if it stopped expandin…

I, for one, believe that continued economic growth needs continued growth in global energy production, and that we will be unable to maintain this growth over the next century for thermodynamic reasons. This will be the big shit-hits-the-fan moment of the coming years, not climate change or wars. We literally have to throw centuries of economics out the window.

Re: London's poor fetish: commodifying working class culture

#59

Post by the_af »

ripb wrote: post #35
UVB-76 wrote: post #11

The middle class are damned if they do, damned if they don't by the author's argument. They are at once chastised for "inoculating" themselves from working class culture, and for embracing it.

>The middle class are damned if they do, damned if they don't by the author's argument. And yet if the middle class ask their representatives to scale back the very same social programs that provide the uber cool, uber cultural working and welfare classes that the author is idolizing here they are demonized in the extreme. Sure, the middle class give the working and welfare class schools, access to universities, free…

The middle class "give" the working class access to universities and free healthcare? Um, what?

Re: London's poor fetish: commodifying working class culture

#60

Post by orbifold »

brainpan wrote: post #34
l33tbro wrote: post #21

The worst thing about this article is how hilariously smug and self-assured the tone is. Seriously, what gives the author the right to blanketly declare the lives of the middle class to be souless, meaningless, and that their jobs are bullshit? How does he not realize that he is projecting his own insecurity and outdated ideas about "authenticity" on to these people. Honestly, I've found that most people don't really…

> what gives the author the right to blanketly declare the lives of the middle class to be souless, meaningless, and that their jobs are bullshit? Well, that's what modern life is under the TINA regime[1]. A whole society of people who've sold out every heroic ideal humans have ever conceived, in order to live as cells inside corporate organs of a hyper-capitalistic organism that would collapse if it stopped expandin…

I believe the sentiment you express is shared by a large number of people, even more in the past. Maybe the Hacker community that spawned the Free Software movement is particularly aware of alternative means of production. Except for labor the amount of captital needed for software development is essentially zero, so that you do not have to attempt to reorganize ownership of capital to be successful. Already today the production of most physical things requires in many cases next to no labor, which in turn means their price should approach the manufacturing cost. In those sectors cooperative invention together with shared means of production should take over (makerspaces), because it is unprofitable for businesses to compete in those domains. The problem is that unless landownership and resource distribution is not tackled at the same time all that will probably not happen because larger parts of the population will either be deemed unnecessary or be engaged in unproductive financial games.
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