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London's poor fetish: commodifying working class culture

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Re: London's poor fetish: commodifying working class culture

#41
"At the same time our doctors, teachers, university professors, architects, lawyers, solicitors and probation officers are rendered impotent. "

What does it say about a society where lawyers, doctors and professors are considered "middle class"? These are educated professionals. They earn, or should earn, higher-than-average wages. But today such professions are looked down upon.

Why would anyone want to be a doctor? They spend their time dealing with old/sick people. Even a lawyer has to keep appointments, has to show up to work regardless because other people plan their day around meetings with lawyers.

It was not that long ago that people dreamed and struggled to complete the education necessary to enter these professions. Today they are looked down upon as labourers, wage earners whose pay is a function of their skill and the number of hours worked. Instead we praise property owners, capitalists, whose investments and pensions are instead a function of how much property they already own.

It is time to properly tax investment income and start respecting those who actually work for a wage,.

Re: London's poor fetish: commodifying working class culture

#42
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're not embracing it, they're consuming it. Embracing another culture is altruistic. Narcissism is looking at another culture and considering whether to "inoculate against" or "experience" it as a feature of your own life. The twenty-somethings are filled with a sense of meaninglessness because their lives are meaningless. They allowed their careers to define who they were, and are now surprised when the market c…

This. They're not adopting, or becoming part of a culture, they're indulging in it as spectacle. If you bought your Mason Jar specifically to drink out of, you have missed the entire cultural context.

[deleted]

Re: London's poor fetish: commodifying working class culture

#43

I'm always reluctant to embrace something that is basically bemoaning "cultural malaise", especially with a rather obvious left-wing bent, BUT, it's very well written and offers several good points. In particular, this bit: "That their accent, speech patterns and knowledge of institutions, by their very deployment in the job market, perpetuate norms that exclude those who were born outside of the cultural elite." It'…

I dunno, personally I thought it was dreadful even by the standards of left-wing articles bemoaning cultural malaise, some of which at least manage consistency. Hipsters are attacked both for being "unable to do anything useful, alienated from physical labor" and because "never will they face the grinding monotony of mindless work", for taking unpaid internships and for having mortgages. They apparently go to food ma…

Complaining that both hipster AND low class work are meaningless is a bit contradictory, definitely. And I have to give you props for pointing out that not every person with a decent office job is a millionaire. Anyway.

What is the author's point, exactly?

For the vast majority of the article, the point is "the life of the middle class is pointless; they try to find some meaning in it through trivialized edgy experiences - which fail to provide much relief to the ennui since they are too sanitized."

Okay, so I buy that. It's less about "poverty tourism" than it is just the classic social signaling game, made more complex by anti-consumerism.

Maybe you take a month off of work to work on your burning man mutant vehicle rather than spending a month's salary on a flashy Mercedes, but you're signaling the same thing.

Be that as it may, it takes until the last few paragraphs to really derail into "oh, but the poor poor people!". In a paragraph it tries to explain how rising rents are tough; how the privilege afforded to some young people magnifies itself later in life, etc, is harsh.

Very little of which is an indictment of faux working-class escapism. That escapism in itself only seems to be indicted by the way that it raises rents, a very tired argument.

But in what way do the "£6 jerk sandwiches and £8 cocktails" hurt the lower classes? The article never makes the point, exactly.

Basically... I read this article as "Chasing faux-working-class hipster stuff is completely pointless, but people feel compelled to do it anyway since they have nothing better to do." I agree with that. Examining the way young urban professionals evolved in an anti-consumerist era is worthwhile.

The little "Oh, btw, die yuppie... er, hipster scum" paragraph I am forgiving. The point is just too weak, and it's better read the other way.

Re: London's poor fetish: commodifying working class culture

#44
post #21

The worst thing about this article is how hilariously smug and self-assured the tone is. Seriously, what gives the author the right to blanketly declare the lives of the middle class to be souless, meaningless, and that their jobs are bullshit? How does he not realize that he is projecting his own insecurity and outdated ideas about "authenticity" on to these people. Honestly, I've found that most people don't really…

> what gives the author the right to blanketly declare the lives of the middle class to be souless, meaningless, and that their jobs are bullshit? Well, that's what modern life is under the TINA regime[1]. A whole society of people who've sold out every heroic ideal humans have ever conceived, in order to live as cells inside corporate organs of a hyper-capitalistic organism that would collapse if it stopped expandin…

Oh my, have you been following the same bread-crumb trail of reading from HN that I have?

http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/07/30/meditations-on-moloch/

Starts off iffy, gets really good.

Incidentally, that page led me to this by the same author:

http://raikoth.net/libertarian.html

Which is very much like something I'd been meaning to write for some time, though better-done (and certainly longer) than mine probably would have been. Strictly separating the practical and moral sides of the arguments was, in particular, a great idea. I do wish someone would send him more rebuttals, since I like reading take-downs of things I agree with and the only one linked there is really poor, even by the not-especially-rigorous standards of the original.

Re: London's poor fetish: commodifying working class culture

#45
Culture has become commodified full stop. Culture of all classes is consumed, revered, hated, and loved by people of all classes.

I'm a working class boy with the middle class car and I know upper class people with the working class clothes listening to grime, middle class people living in a working class area who like eating out at the upper class joints, and even working class people with upper class money. While it's extremely unlikely for one change their underlying class (in the UK), now more than ever it's possible to enjoy the diversions, entertainments, and even trappings of any class.

As Kanye said to Zane Lowe in his interview today, fusion the future, and that's not just music but culture full stop. And it's a great thing too, IMHWCO.

Re: London's poor fetish: commodifying working class culture

#46
post #3

I dont get this. Bullshit jobs, pointless existence, drinking in bars, gentrifiers, working class. ..? It sounds like communist manifest. Most londoners I know are in constant buzz just to keep flowing. London problems could be fixed in four simple steps: 1) introduce 0.1% property tax 2) build a few decent schools 3) improve subway 4) deregulate high raise buildings

Most londoners I know are in constant buzz just to keep flowing. You don't get what the article is talking about, but you can turn around and say something as hard to interpret as that? Is this some kind of drugs reference, or are you saying people work hard, or they're always excited? What the hell is "flowing"?

I think he means that people in London are chronic drinkers, as a way of coping with their environment/existence.

Re: London's poor fetish: commodifying working class culture

#47

Let's consider how the author's description of London contrasts with San Francisco and Silicon Valley. As the poster child of gentrification in action, the city certainly has no shortage of artsy hipsters culturally appropriating both the trappings of the poor, as well as their actual dwelling spaces (adding insult to injury, one could say). But unlike the article's description of London, the Californian hipsters are…

> "They're well-paid, even if it's not because of equity, as the last vestige of the middle class here (https://www.quora.com/Why-do-software-engineers-make-so-much...

Thank you for that link. I've tried to explain that to several people in the past few years with little success. That page explains it very well though.

In terms of pay, most developer positions are comparable to what union tradesmen can make. It varies city to city, trade to trade, and developers in the states are not unionized so maybe they could make more if they were, but regardless they are still in the same neighborhood. Yet the popular perception is that a typical developer is making brain-surgeon money.

Re: London's poor fetish: commodifying working class culture

#48
post #21

The worst thing about this article is how hilariously smug and self-assured the tone is. Seriously, what gives the author the right to blanketly declare the lives of the middle class to be souless, meaningless, and that their jobs are bullshit? How does he not realize that he is projecting his own insecurity and outdated ideas about "authenticity" on to these people. Honestly, I've found that most people don't really…

I have to agree with you on the success of it as a description of culture.

People will also keep chasing what's cool and play the social signaling game, especially young, single people. When I view the article as an examination of how this evolved in an anti-consumerist era, it's actually pretty interesting.

When I view it as a critique of "work" as "showing up, doing what they have to do, then getting out and spending time with the people that they love." - or something that is not culturally, spiritually, etc, uplifting on its own, it's OKAY. Saying that pursuing faux-lower class experiences is motivated by that is kind of a touchy proposition, but it's worth examining, I suppose.

But then it ends with the derail into "the poor poor people" It almost feels like the author has to dive into the political argument at the very end, because this site has as its subtitle "reflections on a revolution".

It's an ill supported point. How does spending $10 on a cocktail in a mason jar hurt people, exactly? Maybe it's pointless, or part of an elaborate social signaling game, but it's not exploitative. Much less so than classic consumerism, I'd argue.

Re: London's poor fetish: commodifying working class culture

#49

I'm always reluctant to embrace something that is basically bemoaning "cultural malaise", especially with a rather obvious left-wing bent, BUT, it's very well written and offers several good points. In particular, this bit: "That their accent, speech patterns and knowledge of institutions, by their very deployment in the job market, perpetuate norms that exclude those who were born outside of the cultural elite." It'…

And working class people don't do social signalling? I find that hard to believe.

Re: London's poor fetish: commodifying working class culture

#50

"At the same time our doctors, teachers, university professors, architects, lawyers, solicitors and probation officers are rendered impotent. " What does it say about a society where lawyers, doctors and professors are considered "middle class"? These are educated professionals. They earn, or should earn, higher-than-average wages. But today such professions are looked down upon. Why would anyone want to be a doctor?…

A GP (family doctor) in the UK earns 5 or 6 times the median wage with a Final Salary Pension
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