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Why is clockwise Clockwise? (2008)

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Re: Why is clockwise Clockwise? (2008)

#21

Post by unwind »

ajuc wrote: post #12
unwind wrote: post #5

Is it just me, or does it make no sense to call clockwise "left to right?" After all, when the (end of the) hand of a clock goes around the circle, it goes just as much right to left as it goes left to right, while going clockwise all the time ...

Yes, it depends whether you watch the upper part of the circle, or the bottom part. But people imagine drawing circle starting at the top, so it makes some sense. BTW: right is Right, and left is "sinister", so to go from sinister to Right is good, and to go the other way is bad. BTW2 - in my native language (Polish) the association are similar - prawy (right) means also "virtous", and "lewy" (left) means "counterfei…

Yeah, I guess ... it's just weird to me since you're supposed to be watching the end of the hand, not the part of the clock that the end might be passing now, or be up to 180 degrees away from. Oh well. Language is like that, I guess.

Re: Why is clockwise Clockwise? (2008)

#22

Post by keehun »

icebraining wrote: post #20
keehun wrote: post #14

Completely irrelevant to the topic at hand, but does anyone know what generated that page? I really enjoyed the page separators and how that was done to pace the reading, even if it is completely useless in a webpage-format. Thank you.

I expect they are not generated but hand written, like so many pages from the 90s. There are more examples with a similar but different format¹, and the whole site structure looks antique. I also enjoyed it, as well as the cleanliness of the whole page. And I found that URW Palladio L is a quite pleasant font. ¹ http://homepages.sover.net/~donnl/iiiivsiv.html

Thank you for that link.

Upon further snooping in the directories, I found a HQX file which decompressed to a file without any extensions. Looking up the first four bytes of the file, I found that it is actually a WordPerfect file.

    FF 57 50 43

Re: Why is clockwise Clockwise? (2008)

#23

Post by peeters »

paulgerhardt wrote: post #19

Regarding the questions at the bottom, much of this is believed to do with one leg being more dominant than the other. The stronger leg may take longer strides. This manifests in surprising emergent phenomena. Grocery stores for instance tend to be laid out so you enter on the right by the veggies and circle around the back to the meats and dairies and come around the left to check out. This isn't just limited to hum…

I'm skeptical of the grocery store claim. Do you have anything to support the claim that one layout is more common than the other (and that would further suggest it's for this reason)?

If I think of all the grocery stores I've been in, I can think of many examples of clockwise layouts. Much more so than counter-clockwise, but that's likely because of my personal brand preferences. The factors in the layout seem to be dominated by:

1. The position of the entrance (if the store is part of a mall, the entrance is often predetermined, and only one layout will be feasible).

2. The brand of the store. Thinking of Canada (and in my experience) Loblaws brand tend to be clockwise, and Sobey's counter-clockwise.

Re: Why is clockwise Clockwise? (2008)

#24

Post by jere »

unwind wrote: post #5

Is it just me, or does it make no sense to call clockwise "left to right?" After all, when the (end of the) hand of a clock goes around the circle, it goes just as much right to left as it goes left to right, while going clockwise all the time ...

I agree. It reminds me of the beltline around Raleigh. It's a circle.... I always envision it and explain it using clockwise or counterclockwise. However, when you get on at the eastern most point (3:00 on a clock), you are given options to get on the west beltline or the east beltline. You're going west either way. It's infuriating.

Re: Why is clockwise Clockwise? (2008)

#25

Post by UhUhUhUh »

This can also be seen as an expression of this fascinating "chirality" problem, whereby things, from living things to particles seem to prefer one direction over the other. Right, dextro-, or clock-wise: most sea-shells, most plants, DNA. most atoms but not neutrinos(!?)

Re: Why is clockwise Clockwise? (2008)

#26

Post by paulgerhardt »

peeters wrote: post #23
paulgerhardt wrote: post #19

Regarding the questions at the bottom, much of this is believed to do with one leg being more dominant than the other. The stronger leg may take longer strides. This manifests in surprising emergent phenomena. Grocery stores for instance tend to be laid out so you enter on the right by the veggies and circle around the back to the meats and dairies and come around the left to check out. This isn't just limited to hum…

I'm skeptical of the grocery store claim. Do you have anything to support the claim that one layout is more common than the other (and that would further suggest it's for this reason)? If I think of all the grocery stores I've been in, I can think of many examples of clockwise layouts. Much more so than counter-clockwise, but that's likely because of my personal brand preferences. The factors in the layout seem to be…

I don't think you're going to get a concrete answer here. I've heard anecdotes justifying both layouts but in all major instances it's by design and not an arbitrary choice. In theory, forcing people to walk in an unnatural direction (clockwise) will make them go slower but be more on edge.

This[1] paper suggests clockwise layouts result in higher sales in discount stores. If you want to put your customers at ease it may not be a good idea to go with a clockwise layout. This[2] article interviews a few retail strategists that describe their intent. This[3] article contends that 'legged-ness' does not matter at all (albeit with a very small pool).

The science is soft enough that I wouldn't put too much weight in the grocery store example specifically. As I recall the trend in the '80's was initially pushing for CW stores to make customers browse slowly but shifted to CCW in the late '90's to make them feel more comfortable. I've heard other stores about shifting the grocery store layout from aisles to the "ring." This roughly coincides with Target stores pre-95 that were competing with Kmart for the blue collar and post '95 that focused on curated, upmarket design for the middle class.

From personal experience, products on end caps absolutely do sell better by 30-60% than those in aisle.

[1] http://www.acrwebsite.org/volumes/eacr/vol8/eacr_vol8_153.pd... [2] http://www.entrepreneur.com/article/223808 [3] http://www.scientificamerican.com/blog/post/do-people-really... & http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1207918/Find-...

Re: Why is clockwise Clockwise? (2008)

#27

Post by lione »

peeters wrote: post #23
paulgerhardt wrote: post #19

Regarding the questions at the bottom, much of this is believed to do with one leg being more dominant than the other. The stronger leg may take longer strides. This manifests in surprising emergent phenomena. Grocery stores for instance tend to be laid out so you enter on the right by the veggies and circle around the back to the meats and dairies and come around the left to check out. This isn't just limited to hum…

I'm skeptical of the grocery store claim. Do you have anything to support the claim that one layout is more common than the other (and that would further suggest it's for this reason)? If I think of all the grocery stores I've been in, I can think of many examples of clockwise layouts. Much more so than counter-clockwise, but that's likely because of my personal brand preferences. The factors in the layout seem to be…

Interestingly, I find Independent to be mostly CCW, even though it's under Loblaws.

Re: Why is clockwise Clockwise? (2008)

#28

Post by peeters »

paulgerhardt wrote: post #26
peeters wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm skeptical of the grocery store claim. Do you have anything to support the claim that one layout is more common than the other (and that would further suggest it's for this reason)? If I think of all the grocery stores I've been in, I can think of many examples of clockwise layouts. Much more so than counter-clockwise, but that's likely because of my personal brand preferences. The factors in the layout seem to be…

I don't think you're going to get a concrete answer here. I've heard anecdotes justifying both layouts but in all major instances it's by design and not an arbitrary choice. In theory, forcing people to walk in an unnatural direction (clockwise) will make them go slower but be more on edge. This[1] paper suggests clockwise layouts result in higher sales in discount stores. If you want to put your customers at ease it…

I totally believe that the choice of layout can cause those symptoms. But for me, I get them in a CCW layout, despite being right-footed. I think it has more to do with disorientation because I'm simply used to a CW layout. That's why I'm curious about if/how a study would eliminate that bias. Thanks for the paper, I'll take a look.

Re: Why is clockwise Clockwise? (2008)

#29

Post by ugexe »

paulgerhardt wrote: post #19

Regarding the questions at the bottom, much of this is believed to do with one leg being more dominant than the other. The stronger leg may take longer strides. This manifests in surprising emergent phenomena. Grocery stores for instance tend to be laid out so you enter on the right by the veggies and circle around the back to the meats and dairies and come around the left to check out. This isn't just limited to hum…

I've always been aware of the direction I go through a store (especially grocery stores) and i've always found that I follow the driving rules for where I live. I stay on the right side of isles and walk counter clockwise. If I were to walk clockwise then walking on the right side of the isles would involve blindly cutting off people coming out of the middle isles (if you actually shop the middle isles its still a problem although slightly less so)
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