Tired of Safari • Hacker News Board

Re: Tired of Safari

#121

Post by taf2 » Wed, Feb 25, 2015, 10:03 PM UTC

cssmoo wrote: post #101

taf2 wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's the thing this is just one example of one issue of thousands. And at the end of the day the difference is with Mozilla and Chromium I can jump on irc and talk directly to the people working on those browsers and get their advice for the best way to work around a current issue. I can get insight into whether a fix is in progress and I can vent my frustrations. I can also rest easy knowing that in 1-3 months a f…

Have you ever raised a support case with MS properly I.e. Not via feedback/connect? Your can speak to someone who knows their shit pretty sharpish and get a fix to you. Most of the time this is same day stuff. As for Chrome, the open web is much better now we have NaCl, sign in nagging and dubious privacy and no support even if you're a paying customer (google apps I'm looking at you).

I think conflating privacy with quality/security is a bad idea... especially if you're trying to say MS is better a customer privacy than Google... http://rt.com/usa/yahoo-microsoft-campaign-political-862/ - just saying...

Re: Tired of Safari

#122

Post by taf2 » Wed, Feb 25, 2015, 10:04 PM UTC

pjmlp wrote: post #11

0x0 wrote: post #2

(Mobile) Safari is well under way to become the new IE6, especially for older iOS devices that do not receive further updates. :(

Pretty much it. Basically it is history repeating itself. Companies embraced IE 6 because it was quite good when it came out, they love to target single browsers and thus we deserved what we got. Younger developer generations bashed about IE6 all the time, embraced the Webkit gods, with the excuse that it is open source, forgetting that it doesn't matter if the user cannot update the browser. So here we are, with Web…

Thanks to Google and Android it's not anywhere near as bad as IE6. Apple is not 99% of the market and that is exactly what Android was designed to ensure.

Re: Tired of Safari

#123

Post by panzi » Wed, Feb 25, 2015, 10:31 PM UTC

bsimpson wrote: post #105

panzi wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While their browser really is subpar, Microsoft did contribute some important technologies to the web. E.g. AJAX (XMLHttpRequest) and (the precursor to) HTML5 Drag and Drop.

If AJAX was any good, we wouldn't need the Fetch API. It was only embraced because the web had literally no was to programaticly download assets before that.

"It was only embraced because the web had literally no was to programaticly download assets before that."

Exactly. The version of the DnD API implemented by Microsoft for the most part wasn't that great either (did Microsoft catch up with what other browser vendors provide these days yet?). But at least they did something and they let it be standardized without any patent claims. We had these problems and Microsoft came up with solutions. Of course you want to use XMLHttpRequest2 or WebSockets and you want to use the dataTransfer object with mime types and the FileReader API. But Microsoft at least initiated that development.

Now that almost sounds like I'm a Microsoft fan boy. I'm not. I use Linux. Couldn't stand to use Windows. But I think one should give credit where credit is due.

Re: Tired of Safari

#124

Post by pjmlp » Wed, Feb 25, 2015, 11:18 PM UTC

taf2 wrote: post #122

pjmlp wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretty much it. Basically it is history repeating itself. Companies embraced IE 6 because it was quite good when it came out, they love to target single browsers and thus we deserved what we got. Younger developer generations bashed about IE6 all the time, embraced the Webkit gods, with the excuse that it is open source, forgetting that it doesn't matter if the user cannot update the browser. So here we are, with Web…

Thanks to Google and Android it's not anywhere near as bad as IE6. Apple is not 99% of the market and that is exactly what Android was designed to ensure.

No, exactly thanks to Google and Android is just as bad as IE6.

When I do web development projects, most customers think Safari and Android use Webkit based browsers, so mobile === Webkit.

Whithout understanding that Safari and Chrome aren't really 100% equal, that Chrome is no longer Webkit based, or that there are actually other alternatives.

Thus making on their eyes Webkit the new IE6.

Just as side note, on my home country, with a minimum wage of 450 euros, there are more Windows Phone devices than iOS ones.

Re: Tired of Safari

#125

Post by tmzt » Thu, Feb 26, 2015, 4:52 AM UTC

panzi wrote: post #63

tuananh wrote: post #4

> Sponsored by IE. Just saying.

While their browser really is subpar, Microsoft did contribute some important technologies to the web. E.g. AJAX (XMLHttpRequest) and (the precursor to) HTML5 Drag and Drop.

Loading collapsed subtopics on MSDN was pretty awesome, first place I saw XMLHttpRequest in use. I remember tearing into that and duplicating it in Perl on my webhost.