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Clampdown on cold call companies unveiled by government

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Clampdown on cold call companies unveiled by government

#31

Post by eyeface »

AndrewKemendo wrote: post #28
mhurron wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you have a prior relationship with these people? Did they somehow indicate they would be involved in your marketing actions? No? Then it's probably a cold call and you're just annoying people.

No? Then it's probably a cold call and you're just annoying people. Sorry but this is naiive. Cold calling works, and not because you are bugging people. You know that "prior relationship" you mention? Well it has to start somewhere and a call is as good as any.

The problem is not that cold calling doesn't work, it's that I do not want you to cold call me.

Re: Clampdown on cold call companies unveiled by government

#33

Post by alex8022 »

kodis wrote: post #20

It seems as though at least for smart phones this could be easily solved through technological means similar to those used for screening email, something along the lines of a spam classification system. I envision my phone having a white list of known good numbers, which would be allowed to cause my phone to ring like it does now; a black list of known bad numbers, which would be immediately dropped; and a catch-all…

I use Mr Number Blocker for this on android. You can whitelist / blacklist specific numbers, and set it to hang up or go to voicemail. There's also a crowdsourcing aspect, where after a certain number of people flag a number as spam, it shows up as "likely spam" when the phone rings. I believe you can have those go straight to voicemail as well.

Re: Clampdown on cold call companies unveiled by government

#34

Post by DanBC »

ColinWright wrote: post #6
DanBC wrote: post #4

This article does not mention the Telephone Preference Service. It's a useful step to take. The article doesn't mention the fact that most mobile providers in the UK have free numbers that you can forward spam texts to. There's also a problem with a gap in the law that allows "genuine market researcher" to contact you to -- this loophole is used by some companies as lead generation.

I belong to the TPS, and I still get a dozen cold calls a day. When I ask where they got my details from they simply say it came up on their system. When I ask for their details they hang up. When I call 1471 it's an unlisted number. Currently there is no viable way to prevent these calls, or to get off their lists.

You ask them for their business name. You then report them to TPS.

Re: Clampdown on cold call companies unveiled by government

#35

Post by dazc »

AndrewKemendo wrote: post #29
dazc wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If your call starts: "Hello Mr Smith and how are you today?" or "...just a quick call" or "...just a courtesy call" You are annoying people and should stop doing it.

What if it starts with something like?: "Hi I am the founder of a company in your area which has a service that I think might fit your needs..." or "I sent you an email recently and wanted to see if you had a chance to look at it..." (assuming you sent them an email) I feel like there is a way to cold call effectively by picking groups of people who you think would be more receptive and then approaching them as yours…

Well avoiding the opening lines that nearly all cold callers seem to use is going to be a plus. You might still annoy people but you may also get further through your pitch before the phone is slammed down at the other end.

Re: Clampdown on cold call companies unveiled by government

#36

Post by wpietri »

kodis wrote: post #30
bkor wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why go for the technical option is the legal one is far more effective? In my country hospitals (and so on call) from an "unknown" number. So blocking that is a bit dangerous. There's a general "do not cold call" list and if you get a cold call while being on that the company behind it can get a hefty fine per call that they make. There's an government organization which checks if companies abide to this (and a few o…

While this will vary from country to country, at least here in the US there are several situations where the legal means are not more effective. The main one is scammers who just don't care, either because they're running a "hit and run" type of operation or because they're operating from overseas. Then there are classes of phone calls which are (again, at least in the US) exempt from the legal "do not call" rules: p…

The US regulators are working hard at it, but it's a challenging problem. The robocalls I all get now are very good at masking where they are from; the humans you talk to know not to give away the name or location of the company.

For those interested in learning more, the FTC had a robocall summit a few years back and they recorded the webcast: http://www.ftc.gov/news-events/events-calendar/2012/10/roboc...

There was a lot of good technical detail on why it's now hard to track these people down.

Re: Clampdown on cold call companies unveiled by government

#37

Post by wpietri »

bediger4000 wrote: post #21

The US Do Not Call list seemed pretty good at cutting the number of cold calls substantially. The remaining cold calls are clearly illegal (in the US). This situation seems vaguely like the Tragedy of the Commons to me. I've decided to listen all the way through the recording speech - these evil psychos can only have a finite number of interactive response units, so monopolizing one of the for as long as possible cut…

I have been there, but I decided that the human operators were still human. So now rather than turning rage-monster at them, I take up their time trying to persuade them that they deserve a better job, that they don't have to waste their lives working as a criminal who lies to people for a living.

Re: Clampdown on cold call companies unveiled by government

#38

Post by wpietri »

Hates_ wrote: post #23

So when does a "customer development call" become a cold call? As a small startup trying to talk to potential customers how does this affect me? All these books on startups talk about picking up the phone and talking to people.

Not sure where you got the idea that customer development calls should be cold calls.

When I teach this stuff, I encourage people to start with their social network and industry events so they can meet people in their target market. Then after you do a solid interview with them, it's pretty easy to say, "Who else in [target market description] should I talk to learn more? Will you introduce us?"

Customer development interviews go way better with an intro from a trusted source who has already vetted you.

(And for those not familiar with Lean Startup jargon, "customer development" is the process by which you figure out both who your market really is and what product will serve them. It is not a synonym for sales.)

Re: Clampdown on cold call companies unveiled by government

#39

Post by wpietri »

AndrewKemendo wrote: post #28
mhurron wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you have a prior relationship with these people? Did they somehow indicate they would be involved in your marketing actions? No? Then it's probably a cold call and you're just annoying people.

No? Then it's probably a cold call and you're just annoying people. Sorry but this is naiive. Cold calling works, and not because you are bugging people. You know that "prior relationship" you mention? Well it has to start somewhere and a call is as good as any.

If your definition of "works" is "is rewarding for the perp", then sure all sorts of things "work". Theft, fraud, and extortion, for example, all work wonderfully well -- for the mafia. Our laws are mainly about things that "work", because if they didn't work, people wouldn't do them enough to matter.

Your mistake is not accounting for the negative externalities. Cold calling and spam both can "work" for the sending party because it lets them find the very small proportion of people who they can sucker into whatever they're pushing. But they impose costs upon other people too, and for them spamming and cold calling definitely doesn't work. Which is why we took the time to outlaw both of them in the US.

Re: Clampdown on cold call companies unveiled by government

#40

Post by ubernostrum »

AndrewKemendo wrote: post #28
mhurron wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you have a prior relationship with these people? Did they somehow indicate they would be involved in your marketing actions? No? Then it's probably a cold call and you're just annoying people.

No? Then it's probably a cold call and you're just annoying people. Sorry but this is naiive. Cold calling works, and not because you are bugging people. You know that "prior relationship" you mention? Well it has to start somewhere and a call is as good as any.

Lots of things work, but not all things are legal or ethical. You don't have an automatic right to inflict yourself on others, or to take up the time of others. Learn to live with that and find something that works and is consistent with it.
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