Ellen Pao Suit Against Kleiner Perkins Heads to Trial • Hacker News Board

Re: Ellen Pao Suit Against Kleiner Perkins Heads to Trial

#51

Post by mahranch » Mon, Feb 23, 2015, 5:22 AM UTC

guiambros wrote: post #11

mahranch wrote: post #3

> An anonymous Reddit employee sent a letter to Kleiner’s legal team, asking them to subpoena Reddit employees “for information regarding conflicts with Ellen Pao.” Wow. I had heard about the case, but didn't know the drama had sprawled over to reddit. All things put aside, including my own biases, if I was reddit's board, I'd get rid of her immediately. It doesn't matter whether if her claims are justified, or even…

So you're putting "biases aside", but yet you're suggesting that the board should terminate her immediately, without any investigation. And they should do this because there's one source, anonymous, alluding that she may not have treated Reddit employees properly... Seriously, I wouldn't call this a well-thought and balanced position, which is the minimum you'd expect from your board.

I think the situation with KP should have pretty much disqualified her right off the bat. She shouldn't have been hired in the first place (though I think she got the job by default thanks to Yishan unexpectedly quitting). They shouldn't have hired her at least until her lawsuit/court case was over with. Right now it's clearly a huge distraction and has proven to be as such.

If reddit didn't hire her to begin with, they wouldn't have had one of their employees telling the defense to subpena the rest of them because of all the conflicts. Her actions with that company are now affecting and a distraction for reddit itself.

Put yourself in the shoes of a reddit board member and tell me you'd gladly hire her to run your company. With all her current baggage and the drama, and conflict with your current employees. Tell me you'd genuinely be happy and fine with her overseeing your company. One which happens to be one of the hottest web properties and quickest rising social media sites out there.

Your job, as a board member, should be to minimize any and all risks to your business, no, investment. Ellen Pao is risk personified at the moment.

Re: Ellen Pao Suit Against Kleiner Perkins Heads to Trial

#52

Post by martin1975 » Mon, Feb 23, 2015, 5:25 AM UTC

She was "pressured" into an affair? I don't really buy that line entirely because it puts the responsibility entirely on the man who "pressured" her. She eventually gave in to the "pressure" instead of raising alarms to HR and/or John Doerr at that point about the harassment, before any sex took place.

Based on what I've seen in similar scenarios - and I'm not claiming this is the case here - it is more likely that she had sex with a married man because she was implied/promised a payoff of some sort (e.g. promotion, bonus, marriage, job certainty, whatever...).

Then when the man couldn't (or wouldn't) deliver, she wigged out and then they got rid of her.. and now she's putting up this jilted lover b.s. in court.

Best advice someone gave me awhile back - don't dip the pen in the company ink unless it's out in the open and you intend to get hitched/married, at which point if it's some kind of a supervisory relationship, you will get reassigned.

Both, not just her, should've been fired when the affair was discovered.

Re: Ellen Pao Suit Against Kleiner Perkins Heads to Trial

#53

Post by Bahamut » Mon, Feb 23, 2015, 5:46 AM UTC

michaelochurch wrote: post #2

I hope she wins, but this issue is a lot bigger than this one case, and what we also need is a new law that holds investors responsible for the conduct of the people they fund. Right now, they can fund frat boys and while the frat boys get sued for sexual harassment or domestic abuse, the investors are scot-free. Indeed, the appeal of Silicon Valley and VC is the disposable company. (As in... don't like what has atta…

I don't think that that would be a good law, but they do say that these sort of problems start from the top, and so it's no surprise that we have these issues in the tech industry - the CEOs are beholden to their investors, and if this is the culture that is present, one has to wonder what message it sends to the companies they fund.

VCs need to police their own, or those funding the VC firms need to take their money elsewhere if we are to see a fix to this.

Re: Ellen Pao Suit Against Kleiner Perkins Heads to Trial

#54

Post by tsotha » Mon, Feb 23, 2015, 6:00 AM UTC

joshlegs wrote: post #22

My favorite part is this: """ Ms. Pao says a married colleague pressured her into an affair and then retaliated against her when she broke it off. When she complained, she says she was discriminated against and got poor reviews, resulting ultimately in her dismissal. She accuses Kleiner of treating her “despicably, maliciously, fraudulently and oppressively” from “an improper and evil motive amounting to malice.” """…

That tripped me up, too. A colleague "pressured her into an affair"? She might have a beef if it was someone with power over her, but a colleague? When women don't want to have affairs with colleagues they say "no".

Reads to me like she compromised her position at the firm and now she wants a big payday. If that's the case, I wouldn't settle with her either.

Re: Ellen Pao Suit Against Kleiner Perkins Heads to Trial

#55

Post by franklinho » Mon, Feb 23, 2015, 6:04 AM UTC

mahranch wrote: post #42

rdl wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've Ellen Pao her in other contexts and found her incredibly engaged and supportive, so it was probably specific to crap going on at KPCB. She is one of the best VCs I've ever interacted with; it sounds like she had a negative situation at KPCB (which hopefully the trial will resolve), but it absolutely isn't about her competence and intelligence otherwise. By all accounts she's also doing very well as an operator a…

> By all accounts she's also doing very well as an operator at Reddit. That's completely the opposite of what the linked article claims. It says that a reddit employee sent the defense a letter asking to subpena reddit employees regarding conflicts with Ellen Pao.

Mind you, the article's claim indicates that there is one employee at reddit that disagrees with her.

That's no clear indication of her success/failure at reddit.

Re: Ellen Pao Suit Against Kleiner Perkins Heads to Trial

#56

Post by bsder » Mon, Feb 23, 2015, 6:36 AM UTC

mahranch wrote: post #3

> An anonymous Reddit employee sent a letter to Kleiner’s legal team, asking them to subpoena Reddit employees “for information regarding conflicts with Ellen Pao.” Wow. I had heard about the case, but didn't know the drama had sprawled over to reddit. All things put aside, including my own biases, if I was reddit's board, I'd get rid of her immediately. It doesn't matter whether if her claims are justified, or even…

Uh, no. You cannot assume anything is this case except that it is going to be very surprising.

These people operate a level that normal people simply do not comprehend. They expect that the rules do not apply to them, and they respond very badly when someone breaks that bubble.

This is why we have courts. And this is going to get ugly.

Re: Ellen Pao Suit Against Kleiner Perkins Heads to Trial

#57

Post by rdl » Mon, Feb 23, 2015, 6:54 AM UTC

mahranch wrote: post #42

rdl wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've Ellen Pao her in other contexts and found her incredibly engaged and supportive, so it was probably specific to crap going on at KPCB. She is one of the best VCs I've ever interacted with; it sounds like she had a negative situation at KPCB (which hopefully the trial will resolve), but it absolutely isn't about her competence and intelligence otherwise. By all accounts she's also doing very well as an operator a…

> By all accounts she's also doing very well as an operator at Reddit. That's completely the opposite of what the linked article claims. It says that a reddit employee sent the defense a letter asking to subpena reddit employees regarding conflicts with Ellen Pao.

Yeah, I guess I meant "by every Reddit employee I've talked to, and by observing how much ass the site has been kicking since she joined, and especially since she took over as CEO". It's certainly not exhaustively researched, and I'd expect a company going through changes as massive as Yishan/Ellen wrought (moving everyone to SF from remote, operating more like a startup vs. a nonprofit, etc.), there'd be some discontent.

Re: Ellen Pao Suit Against Kleiner Perkins Heads to Trial

#58

Post by saraid216 » Mon, Feb 23, 2015, 7:04 AM UTC

mahranch wrote: post #46

jgoah wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

His comment history is filled with him being far more rude than is necessary. He's either a troll or an asshole. Sucks that he's here.

Thanks for stalking me instead of taking my comment at face value (I wonder if that's a new, evolving form of the ad hominem logical fallacy). It's funny, actually. I've never seen so many downvotes flying on hackernews as I have in this thread. Not my comment, this is actually my first downvoted comment on this website in 2 years (which would contradict your claim of me being "a troll"), but watching this thread pro…

If you want your truths welcomed, don't make them hard.

Is that a hard enough truth for you to swallow?

Re: Ellen Pao Suit Against Kleiner Perkins Heads to Trial

#59

Post by lurkha » Mon, Feb 23, 2015, 9:32 AM UTC

argonaut wrote: post #29

defen wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe. To me a more likely explanation is that a pair of grifters teamed up to shake down a well-heeled target that they thought would go down easily.

I'd hardly call that a "more likely" explanation. Not something to be ruled out. But it's a ridiculous conclusion to call the "more likely" explanation.

And bisexuality is ? How convenient he suddenly becomes bisexual after allegations of ponzi schemes pop up.

Re: Ellen Pao Suit Against Kleiner Perkins Heads to Trial

#60

Post by lurkha » Mon, Feb 23, 2015, 10:40 AM UTC

tsotha wrote: post #54

joshlegs wrote: post #22

My favorite part is this: """ Ms. Pao says a married colleague pressured her into an affair and then retaliated against her when she broke it off. When she complained, she says she was discriminated against and got poor reviews, resulting ultimately in her dismissal. She accuses Kleiner of treating her “despicably, maliciously, fraudulently and oppressively” from “an improper and evil motive amounting to malice.” """…

That tripped me up, too. A colleague "pressured her into an affair"? She might have a beef if it was someone with power over her, but a colleague? When women don't want to have affairs with colleagues they say "no". Reads to me like she compromised her position at the firm and now she wants a big payday. If that's the case, I wouldn't settle with her either.

I was on her side until I read the part about being pressured into an affair. Sexual harassment is a real, horrible thing. But an affair with a married dude??? As an educated executive level woman??! That is some bs and poor judgment. And unfortunately it casts poor light on the rest of her claims.