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Ellen Pao Suit Against Kleiner Perkins Heads to Trial

nytimes.com

21–30 of 67 posts

Re: Ellen Pao Suit Against Kleiner Perkins Heads to Trial

#21
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no way to write a law like this that isn't open to horrific abuse. If investors are going to be held responsible for their management's criminal activities, the law isn't just going to be used in Silicon Valley. I don't want to be held liable the next time I buy a few hundred shares of a company whose managers fuck up and (defraud mortgage borrowers|turn NJ into a superfund site|whatever). I'm generally very…

I'm not talking about applying the law to everyone who owns shares. That would be ridiculous, and would take down a large number of employees. I should have clarified. I want career-making, lead investors to be liable. The people who created Evan Spiegel should be held responsible if he creates a company with a discriminatory culture. Not everyone who holds a few hundred shares; just people who either played a role,…

> The people who created Evan Spiegel should be held responsible if he creates a company with a discriminatory culture.

You know that that's not happening though, right? I mean, the idea is so far-fetched and unrealistic that it's comical. The first step would be to merely hold Spiegel responsible for what he did: aaaand nothing is happening. Nothing will ever happen. But you want to go two steps ahead and hold investors responsible for Spiegel's behavior? That's laughably naive.

Consider, for example, that one of Reddit's big investors is a pimp. No, that's not a fucking joke. He was straight up selling women's bodies to be used sexually. We're not holding people who sell women's bodies for sex accountable... and yet you want to go a few steps further and hold people responsible for other people's conduct?

Re: Ellen Pao Suit Against Kleiner Perkins Heads to Trial

#22
My favorite part is this: """ Ms. Pao says a married colleague pressured her into an affair and then retaliated against her when she broke it off. When she complained, she says she was discriminated against and got poor reviews, resulting ultimately in her dismissal. She accuses Kleiner of treating her “despicably, maliciously, fraudulently and oppressively” from “an improper and evil motive amounting to malice.” """

Sounds like classic blame-shifting to me.

Re: Ellen Pao Suit Against Kleiner Perkins Heads to Trial

#23
post #4

I hope she wins, but this issue is a lot bigger than this one case, and what we also need is a new law that holds investors responsible for the conduct of the people they fund. Right now, they can fund frat boys and while the frat boys get sued for sexual harassment or domestic abuse, the investors are scot-free. Indeed, the appeal of Silicon Valley and VC is the disposable company. (As in... don't like what has atta…

Did something happen to you? This seems like an absurdly high bar.

The better question to ask of Michael Church would be what hasn't happened to him, from his perspective. (Then disregard his answer.)

Re: Ellen Pao Suit Against Kleiner Perkins Heads to Trial

#24
post #17
post #9

I founded a KP backed company during those years. I'm not longer involved, so I don't have a stake in this. Likewise, I don't have any specific knowledge of the events. At the partners' meeting and other interactions, Pao seemed uninterested and out of place. Their culture seemed to be intense, friendly, joking debate. I don't think it's a gender thing, as I remember Meeker and Lee being incredibly helpful. This whol…

Wow, I wish the nyt piece mentioned the fletcher angle.

It's quite a fascinating angle. In addition to all the financial fraud he's been accused of, before marrying Ms. Pao in 2007, Fletcher was in a gay relationship for at least 10 years: http://www.nytimes.com/2004/05/18/nyregion/50-million-gift-a...

To me, that's interesting. We've all heard of the straight married man who comes out of the closet in mid-life and realizes he is gay, but is it at all common for the opposite to happen? Maybe I just don't know enough people.

Re: Ellen Pao Suit Against Kleiner Perkins Heads to Trial

#25
post #24
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, I wish the nyt piece mentioned the fletcher angle.

It's quite a fascinating angle. In addition to all the financial fraud he's been accused of, before marrying Ms. Pao in 2007, Fletcher was in a gay relationship for at least 10 years: http://www.nytimes.com/2004/05/18/nyregion/50-million-gift-a... To me, that's interesting. We've all heard of the straight married man who comes out of the closet in mid-life and realizes he is gay, but is it at all common for the oppos…

This is quite ignorant. The most likely explanation is bisexuality.

Re: Ellen Pao Suit Against Kleiner Perkins Heads to Trial

#26
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not talking about applying the law to everyone who owns shares. That would be ridiculous, and would take down a large number of employees. I should have clarified. I want career-making, lead investors to be liable. The people who created Evan Spiegel should be held responsible if he creates a company with a discriminatory culture. Not everyone who holds a few hundred shares; just people who either played a role,…

> The people who created Evan Spiegel should be held responsible if he creates a company with a discriminatory culture. You know that that's not happening though, right? I mean, the idea is so far-fetched and unrealistic that it's comical. The first step would be to merely hold Spiegel responsible for what he did: aaaand nothing is happening. Nothing will ever happen. But you want to go two steps ahead and hold inves…

Is there an assertion that Spiegel has actually created a discriminatory culture at Snapchat?

Or are we leaping to that conclusion based on idiotic emails he wrote in his late teens/early 20s in college and the notion that a leopard doesn't change his spots?

Might we expect that a CEO would act differently in his company than a fraternity social chair?

If he's kept it up and continues to act in that same way as CEO, by all means hold him responsible (he presumably reports to the board). Trying to hold a lead investor/VC responsible is not going to be workable in the small and certainly not in the general case.

Absent a specific, current claim, I'll give him enough credit to evaluate his current actions and not hold him to account for emails that surfaced from years ago and in a completely different context (even though I find the emails appalling).

Re: Ellen Pao Suit Against Kleiner Perkins Heads to Trial

#27
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's quite a fascinating angle. In addition to all the financial fraud he's been accused of, before marrying Ms. Pao in 2007, Fletcher was in a gay relationship for at least 10 years: http://www.nytimes.com/2004/05/18/nyregion/50-million-gift-a... To me, that's interesting. We've all heard of the straight married man who comes out of the closet in mid-life and realizes he is gay, but is it at all common for the oppos…

This is quite ignorant. The most likely explanation is bisexuality.

Maybe. To me a more likely explanation is that a pair of grifters teamed up to shake down a well-heeled target that they thought would go down easily.

Re: Ellen Pao Suit Against Kleiner Perkins Heads to Trial

#28
post #9

I founded a KP backed company during those years. I'm not longer involved, so I don't have a stake in this. Likewise, I don't have any specific knowledge of the events. At the partners' meeting and other interactions, Pao seemed uninterested and out of place. Their culture seemed to be intense, friendly, joking debate. I don't think it's a gender thing, as I remember Meeker and Lee being incredibly helpful. This whol…

I've Ellen Pao her in other contexts and found her incredibly engaged and supportive, so it was probably specific to crap going on at KPCB.

She is one of the best VCs I've ever interacted with; it sounds like she had a negative situation at KPCB (which hopefully the trial will resolve), but it absolutely isn't about her competence and intelligence otherwise.

By all accounts she's also doing very well as an operator at Reddit.

Re: Ellen Pao Suit Against Kleiner Perkins Heads to Trial

#29
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is quite ignorant. The most likely explanation is bisexuality.

Maybe. To me a more likely explanation is that a pair of grifters teamed up to shake down a well-heeled target that they thought would go down easily.

I'd hardly call that a "more likely" explanation. Not something to be ruled out. But it's a ridiculous conclusion to call the "more likely" explanation.

Re: Ellen Pao Suit Against Kleiner Perkins Heads to Trial

#30
post #6
post #3

> An anonymous Reddit employee sent a letter to Kleiner’s legal team, asking them to subpoena Reddit employees “for information regarding conflicts with Ellen Pao.” Wow. I had heard about the case, but didn't know the drama had sprawled over to reddit. All things put aside, including my own biases, if I was reddit's board, I'd get rid of her immediately. It doesn't matter whether if her claims are justified, or even…

Such strong language, and such vitriol. If you really believe this, you need to recognize that sometimes the best people are fleeing a bad situation -- a situation that they were a victim of. I don't really know the details of what happened at KP, but I am not surprised that discrimination (deliberate or otherwise) exists in venture capital. Did it happen to her? I don't know. Will the real truth ever come out? Proba…

His comment history is filled with him being far more rude than is necessary. He's either a troll or an asshole. Sucks that he's here.
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