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Ask HN: What to do when all you have is talent?

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Re: Ask HN: What to do when all you have is talent?

#81
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't get me wrong: I'm not saying you shouldn't have confidence in your abilities. And if that truly is the case, then I think it's a great quality to have. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you're a good person and not a loudmouth jackass. However, as the quote goes, "That's the problem with first impressions. You only get to make one." People tend to be on their guard when interacting with someone for th…

You're totally on-point here. My resume is a disaster because I'm bad at writing them. I think I just filled in the blanks on an old Word template the first time I made one. Lets just say that I haven't gotten better at it. I do get contacted for interviews and solicited for resumes on a semi-regular basis. I interview well and am quite easy to deal with on an interpersonal level. Thing is, there seems to always be a…

You may want to engage a resume writing service. I know people who have used them and gotten good results.

I could totally see a "disaster" resume being a big problem. A week or two after the interview, people's impressions of you have started to fade and blend with those of the other candidates, but your resume is still in front of them in black and white.

Re: Ask HN: What to do when all you have is talent?

#82
post #77

15 years in, formal eduction shouldn't be a big deal. Assuming you made a deep positive impact on successful projects, you should have a deep network or connections and referrals to tap? If not, you need to answer that question. Why are you "bluffing" through jobs when you should have a large tool-belt of experience? Just-in-time/on-the-job learning should be a positive, but it sounds like you need to improve your so…

Thanks much. The 'bluffing' was how I got the tool-belt. Again, my apologies for such a sloppy first post. LinkedIn, while up to date, has never done anything for me but spam me about things like endorsements and birthdays.

Well, and get my contact info into the hands of every spambot posing as a headhunter on the planet. It's there though. Former coworkers are hard to track down but all have written recommendations for me in the past. Some are on the LinkedIn page. I have no project portfolio. I don't really know how to put one together.

I like asking random people on the internet because my former managers and co-workers can't figure out why I have been unemployed for so long either.

Re: Ask HN: What to do when all you have is talent?

#83
post #57
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for the input. While Pen Testing has always been my goal, I have started looking at things like Database Development or Full-stack web dev training. Problem is, my financial situation doesn't always allow for me to get access to structured learning.

> Problem is, my financial situation doesn't always allow for me to get access to structured learning. There's so much information on the web, or via books/video courses/MOOCs that there's no need to do the structured learning thing. Particularly with Python. Plus, Python is used in security to create scripts/tools. EDIT: Example of some books, vis-a-vis Python and security (learn the basics first). * Violent Python:…

Yes, I am aware of and use some of these. I have an ex co-worker who is still a close friend and a developer who is always giving me advice and helping me find these kinds of resources.

The financial thing was more about certification training, as I was (mistakenly) under the impression that they carried more weight and would open more doors for me. Especially in the Security realm.

I had also looked at things like bloc.io but who really has that much money for that kind of training on their own? Thank you for the response!

Re: Ask HN: What to do when all you have is talent?

#84
post #80
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're totally on-point here. My resume is a disaster because I'm bad at writing them. I think I just filled in the blanks on an old Word template the first time I made one. Lets just say that I haven't gotten better at it. I do get contacted for interviews and solicited for resumes on a semi-regular basis. I interview well and am quite easy to deal with on an interpersonal level. Thing is, there seems to always be a…

> My resume is a disaster because I'm bad at writing them. Make it one page. Stick to things they actually care about. Yes, this means tailoring it to each opportunity. This also means leaving things out... that's okay, I remember in my last resume leaving off some ancient Java experience from college that didn't seem relevant at the time. It became a pleasant surprise for them when they discovered that I knew more t…

Absolutely! I really appreciate that.

Re: Ask HN: What to do when all you have is talent?

#85
post #80
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're totally on-point here. My resume is a disaster because I'm bad at writing them. I think I just filled in the blanks on an old Word template the first time I made one. Lets just say that I haven't gotten better at it. I do get contacted for interviews and solicited for resumes on a semi-regular basis. I interview well and am quite easy to deal with on an interpersonal level. Thing is, there seems to always be a…

> My resume is a disaster because I'm bad at writing them. Make it one page. Stick to things they actually care about. Yes, this means tailoring it to each opportunity. This also means leaving things out... that's okay, I remember in my last resume leaving off some ancient Java experience from college that didn't seem relevant at the time. It became a pleasant surprise for them when they discovered that I knew more t…

Strong recommendation from a frequent hirer: for each job, you should state what you accomplished, especially if that can be quantified. Supply the quantities! A list of what your responsibilities are is useless: did you actually do that stuff successfully?

Re: Ask HN: What to do when all you have is talent?

#86
I'm going to be a little rough, but it's not meant to slam you.

Here's what I would see as a hiring manager if this was distilled down to a resume:

1. H.S. Diploma

2. Worked help desk and wiring jobs for 15 years with little to no upward career progression

3. No particular portfolio of work you can point to

4. Personally, given this background, you've ended up with a new family. I don't know if you're struggling to support them or not, but I'm guessing with help desk jobs it's probably a struggle.

All this together can read to a hiring managers as "not responsible or forward thinking enough to trust with a chance. May not actually know how to do the kind of long-term hard work I need for more senior/higher paying positions."

Even with a change in any of those four bullet points, you would read as a better candidate.

1. College degree instead of H.S. Diploma

2. Upward career progression

3. A portfolio of work

4. Family issues are not part of the conversation since your personal issues are not the hiring manager's concern, this bullet doesn't even exist.

I'm not saying you need to have all 4, but any improvement in any of them would help. You don't have to have a college degree if your 15 years of experience showed a progression in roles and responsibilities. Or none of that would matter if you had a bunch of awesome projects up someplace for an employer to look at.

Or with no changes in 2,3 or 4, in 15 years it never occurred to you to go hit the local community college and start on what might even look like a degree path? (I say this one with lots of authority since I was once in a similar situation as you, but I finally got the clue after only 4 years of suffering in shitty jobs).

You can't change #1 quickly, even if you started today, that would be years of hard work. Harder than you can realize right now (I'm speaking from personal experience)

#2 might be a framing issue, you might need to rethink how you present your prior work so that if there was any kind of increase in roles and responsibility it's reflected in your work history (and in how you present yourself during interviews.

#3 is also long-term, but even some github projects that do automatic security audits or test for vulnerabilities, things that a few weeks of learning shell scripts or python could probably get you, those would be huge on your resume. Being able to talk intelligently about those things during an interview would be even better.

#4 here's some tough talk. Your personal issues are of no concern to prospective employers. They honestly don't care, and anything they know about is likely to make them concerned about your reliability as a corporate asset.

#5 Finally, certificates are touchy things, they might open some doors, but not as many as just having a college degree would. Most certifications are barely worth the paper they're printed on. If you are really interested in computer security (a very good, fast growing industry with excellent pay and plentiful job openings waiting for you to apply) you need to get into a college degree program and work towards at least a B.S. in Computer Science, Computer Security or Information Systems and then get CISSP certified.

Here's some even tougher talk, to even be considered for a CISSP certificate you have to have had 5 years of 40-hour/wk work experience in 2 of 10 work domains. https://www.isc2.org/cissp-domains/default.aspx This is the level of candidate that professionals in the field are looking for, full-stop.

You can also become an Associate of (ISC)2 and you'll then have six years to get the necessary experience. https://www.isc2.org/associates/default.aspx

If that's too much, remember an employer is going to think "this guy can't even commit to a real certification program, why should I hire him?". Scout job postings you want, and look at the requirements, that's your guide for what is being looked for. Talent is not one of them.

If this is what you want, you need to start today and do everything necessary to make it happen. You're 15 years behind at this point. But you can make it up.

If this is all too much, you might rethink and go a different direction. A portfolio of tools, a blog on your topic of interest, participation in communities of interest (start networking NOW) all need to be there when you apply for that next, better, job.

#6: okay really finally. You need to start thinking in terms of career and not job. A job is where you go exchange labor for money. You go from job to job, the pay might be better, it might be worse, but they aren't building blocks that get you anywhere in particular. A career is a tower, each place you work gives you building material for that tower and you slowly build up as high as you're capable of going. Jobs are what you do when you're just out of highschool and looking to score some gas money. Careers are what you do to prepare for eventual retirement and raise a family.

I know I'm being harsh, but I know lots of guys in your same place and can't seem to connect the dots, even after decades of walking in place.

Re: Ask HN: What to do when all you have is talent?

#87
You sound a lot like programmers I constantly run in to who claim to have 10+ years of experience and rate themselves a 10 out of 10 on everything known to man. But yet can't land a full time job and just coast from freelance to freelance work and take on projects that my 8 year old nephew and/or a chimp could have done/automated. Like some of the replies here, these guys come off super arrogant and are just not personalable. These are all major red flags. Not to mention they're just clever at being deceptive, not only to potential employers but also themselves. Because when pressed in technical interviews or tests they fold. They fold hard.

If you really want to break in, I would be honest with what you can do. There's no shame in being self taught. Use that trait as a strength to show your capability and interest to learn new things. That you're autonomous and motivated. Talk about how you were able to learn new things or how you were the driving force behind something. Don't be afraid to take a smaller role and listen to others. Your coworkers are assets not ladders for you to climb over. And most importantly, work with smarter people. Soon enough you'll learn that you're actually not that talented... or maybe you really are. Good luck.

Re: Ask HN: What to do when all you have is talent?

#88

You sound a lot like programmers I constantly run in to who claim to have 10+ years of experience and rate themselves a 10 out of 10 on everything known to man. But yet can't land a full time job and just coast from freelance to freelance work and take on projects that my 8 year old nephew and/or a chimp could have done/automated. Like some of the replies here, these guys come off super arrogant and are just not pers…

Sorry, Did I say something negative about coworkers? And again, the talent I am referring to is the ability to learn quickly because of a great mentor I had when I was much younger. Not a superpower.

Re: Ask HN: What to do when all you have is talent?

#90
post #86

I'm going to be a little rough, but it's not meant to slam you. Here's what I would see as a hiring manager if this was distilled down to a resume: 1. H.S. Diploma 2. Worked help desk and wiring jobs for 15 years with little to no upward career progression 3. No particular portfolio of work you can point to 4. Personally, given this background, you've ended up with a new family. I don't know if you're struggling to s…

I appreciate you being blunt. I'm not going to get anywhere if people tip-toe around any issues they may be able to bring to my attention. I'm not easily offended. I appreciate the last point. Career vs. Job. Yeah, I could go answer phones like I did when I was sixteen but that would just be stupid.

Thanks for that comment!

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