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A female computer science major at Stanford: “Floored” by the sexism

fortune.com

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Re: A female computer science major at Stanford: “Floored” by the sexism

#71

Post by b6 »

Jimmy wrote: post #64
leif wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You've successfully completed steps 1 and 2: 1. Acknowledge there is a real problem. 2. Acknowledge you are part of the problem. Now, on to steps 3-n! 3. Don't be discouraged, accept that there are things you can do to help! This is good , you're about to become a more valuable member of society. 4. Accept that you need to put in some effort. Not much, don't worry. Most of it is shutting up. 5. Read what women write…

>Accept that you need to put in some effort. Not much, don't worry. Most of it is shutting up. Disgusting.

I first ran into this idea here[1] where one of the best ways to "push back against privilege" was "shut up".

[1] http://www.blackgirldangerous.org/2014/02/4-ways-push-back-p...

Re: A female computer science major at Stanford: “Floored” by the sexism

#72

Post by cubetime »

wilsynet wrote: post #63
cubetime wrote: post #60

I do sometimes wonder what's added by focusing on sexism in tech, in particular, and suggesting it's uniquely a problem with tech. I can believe it's worse here on average than some other comfortable professional jobs, but seriously, sexism is everywhere and if we want to reduce it, it makes more sense to me to focus on the problem itself in full generality rather than an environment it's found in. Unless you want to…

It's useful to point it out in tech because in tech, we believe that we operate with the purity of egalitarianism. But real life is more complicated and messy.

I know far more developers that think the egalitarianism myth is wrong and silly than that buy into it unexamined (I'm not sure I know anyone in the second category personally), though I suppose I might've lucked out.

Re: A female computer science major at Stanford: “Floored” by the sexism

#73

Post by tothepixel »

dudifordMann wrote: post #61
blkhp19 wrote: post #22

First of all, calling a group of guys a sausage fest is reverse sexism. If I called a classroom full of girls a barbie play-date, or a tea party, or a "fashion" class - regardless of the real reason for their gathering, people would be outraged - and rightfully so. None of those things are true and it's disrespectful to say something like that. Second, the guy who said "well I should have applied for that" might have…

Side note: My relative who works in HR has told me time and again, the appropriate way to say "you look nice" to a co-worker in a professional setting is to not say it . In that setting, beyond grossly inappropriate work attire (at which point all comments should go directly to HR and not the employee), there is no need to make a subjective-comment on someone's appearance, you're there to work. (edit) grammar

That's just sad. How far will political correctness go when we can't even compliment others.

Re: A female computer science major at Stanford: “Floored” by the sexism

#74

Post by leif »

b6 wrote: post #66
leif wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You've successfully completed steps 1 and 2: 1. Acknowledge there is a real problem. 2. Acknowledge you are part of the problem. Now, on to steps 3-n! 3. Don't be discouraged, accept that there are things you can do to help! This is good , you're about to become a more valuable member of society. 4. Accept that you need to put in some effort. Not much, don't worry. Most of it is shutting up. 5. Read what women write…

You seem certain that that you know exactly what the problem is, and exactly how to solve it, down to a list of steps. You even seem certain that a stranger on the Internet is part of the problem. Well, give me a break -- that's really presumptuous and condescending. Listening to the aggrieved seems like a good idea, but there's no guarantee that they have the answers.

>You even seem certain that a stranger on the Internet is part of the problem

The stranger on the internet said they felt like part of the problem, so I don't really know what to tell you.

If you read between the lines a bit, I never said I had any of the answers. All I said was listen to the people that are affected, try to learn about their problems, and be empathetic, and maybe you'll find the answers.

I'm not trying to be revolutionary here, I just think one of the nice features of these types of issues is that the people being affected are actual people that you can listen to and have conversations with, and I think that's a good place to start.

Re: A female computer science major at Stanford: “Floored” by the sexism

#76

Post by rajacombinator »

Ahhh Stanford undergrads. Whenever I'm thinking this life is too brutal I can always count on them to remind me there are people out there whose entire lives have been shrouded in naiveté and privilege.

I wonder how much the media is to blame for this young woman's mindset? Did she ever consider that her boss might not be asking her opinion because she was an intern? Or just jump to I'm not getting 100% attention on a silver platter, must be sexism? It's not clear from the article.

Re: A female computer science major at Stanford: “Floored” by the sexism

#77

Post by ahelwer »

msandford wrote: post #62
ahelwer wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess it wouldn't be a discussion about sexism on HN without someone popping up to invalidate the woman's experiences.

I don't really read it as "invalidating" so much as pointing out the possibility of misattribution. A concrete example: my car broke down. It's a Ford, that's blue, and is a two door, and is rear wheel drive. Is the right conclusion that it broke because it's a Ford and all Fords are pieces of crap? Are there possible causes? Missed maintenance, a lemon, driving it too hard, etc. I realize that it's crazy to suggest…

You are free to advance an alternative hypothesis explaining her observations. If you go with her thinking "everyone is against her", like the parent comment, you should ask yourself what separates you from all the other people who have defended the status quo by dismissing women complaining of sexism.

Re: A female computer science major at Stanford: “Floored” by the sexism

#78

Post by tothepixel »

blkhp19 wrote: post #68
dudifordMann wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Side note: My relative who works in HR has told me time and again, the appropriate way to say "you look nice" to a co-worker in a professional setting is to not say it . In that setting, beyond grossly inappropriate work attire (at which point all comments should go directly to HR and not the employee), there is no need to make a subjective-comment on someone's appearance, you're there to work. (edit) grammar

I agree with this. Nobody should be judged based on how they look. If you compliment someone and don't compliment others, it could be interpreted the wrong way. If you compliment someone and it's misinterpreted, then it could also cause issues. Just don't judge people based on superficial things.

Knowing this I am going to start wearing sweatpants and slip-ons to work. Perhaps I'll stop bathing too. I would certainly hate to have to call my company out on tumblr for judging me on superficial things.

Re: A female computer science major at Stanford: “Floored” by the sexism

#79

Post by gmarx »

blkhp19 wrote: post #22

First of all, calling a group of guys a sausage fest is reverse sexism. If I called a classroom full of girls a barbie play-date, or a tea party, or a "fashion" class - regardless of the real reason for their gathering, people would be outraged - and rightfully so. None of those things are true and it's disrespectful to say something like that. Second, the guy who said "well I should have applied for that" might have…

I take crap at work for wearing sport coats and pants made of wool. I've given up on ties and suits unless there is a customer visit. A workplace has a culture and though you can exist at the edge of it, you'd better not go outside the lines.

Also, I compliment other men on their outfits when they look especially well put together. No HR complaints yet...

Re: A female computer science major at Stanford: “Floored” by the sexism

#80

Post by Jimmy »

b6 wrote: post #71
Jimmy wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Accept that you need to put in some effort. Not much, don't worry. Most of it is shutting up. Disgusting.

I first ran into this idea here[1] where one of the best ways to "push back against privilege" was "shut up". [1] http://www.blackgirldangerous.org/2014/02/4-ways-push-back-p...

Oh, I'm aware of the idea's genesis and purpose. I just happen to not think much of it.
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