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A Russian TV Insider Describes a Modern Propaganda Machine

nytimes.com

81–90 of 119 posts

Re: A Russian TV Insider Describes a Modern Propaganda Machine

#81
post #26

Public indoctrination through control of the media is easily the most pressing problem of our days. Far more important than that of the global warming, for example, simply because it blocks meaningful discussion on the subjects that really matter. While the public opinion is manipulated both in the US and in Russia, the methods and outcomes are vastly different. For a diligent study of the US media manipulation I hig…

The problem with Chomsky is that he views everything from a left-wing perspective, in which he interprets the biases in the media as coming only from big money and the geopolitical power that big money relies on.

He cannot explain, for example, the success of pro-immigration politics. He might argue that immigration is a tool used by the powerful to lower the cost of labor, but to do so is to completely ignore that it has been the left that has been the main driver of immigration and multiculturalism.

Similarly, he can't explain the success of the pro-Israel lobby in the US. He views the US as propping up a right wing regime in Israel for its own benefit. But again, this ignores the complete cooperation of the mainstream left in the US in this process.

The only way you can believe in Chomsky's worldview is if you think that literally everyone in mainstream US politics, and most of the left outside of the mainstream, have been co-opted into promoting an agenda which is absolutely unrelated (and often opposed to) to their stated agenda. It is a viewpoint that vastly exaggerates the importance of money and political power, and ignores the power of ideology.

Re: A Russian TV Insider Describes a Modern Propaganda Machine

#82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're on to something, but they don't know the whole picture. Which is that in a world where mass media is under the control of one superpower or another, you are only going to hear painful criticism of your own government from the opposing superpower's media arm. What I find just as painful as you about your countrymen's opinion of RT, is that people in my country will criticize RT as propaganda and then comically…

The funny thing is even if RT is an propaganda arm of Hitler-Putin, the US would objectively have been better off listening to it. Russia was in opposition to the Iraq War, destabilizing Libya, supporting the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt, and toppling Assad in Syria. Putin was never cryptic that Ukraine was a "red line" and now we're all shocked at that outcome. Now we've got ISIS, have given up toppling Assad, troops…

Where did Putin say Ukraine is a "red line" before that crisis. Just a reminder: Their elected president rejected a trade agreement with the EU. His people didn't like that, and coupled with lots of grief about extreme corruption and other things, things escalated. The US or the EU did not intervene at all, whereas all the invading and conquering forces where Russian...

The western governments also didn't want to topple Assad. But they also can't be opposed to deposing him, because that would contradict all democratic values: Assad and his father are mass murderers who rule their country dictatorily in a reign of terror.

Regime change was never a goal in Libya. If at any point Gaddafi had just stopped shelling civilian settlements, the bombardment would have been stopped, and the rebels wouldn't have had a snow flake's chance in hell of deposing him. The UN resolution was followed to the letter. Gaddafi's stupidity is a whole different matter.

Re: A Russian TV Insider Describes a Modern Propaganda Machine

#83
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is their greatest achievement, to gain equivalency. To a good degree this has worked. There are lots of people who believe major European and NorthAmerican media are no better than Russian media. It has worked for their domestic audience, to great effect, and to a good degree internationally. Just look at Putin's approval ratings.

I don't really believe Putin's approval ratings. In Russia there is no free press and private companies or academic institutes can be controlled at will by the executive branch. So if any institute or private company conducts a poll... well...

Believe it. Every Russian I know in real life (in Canada no less) loves Putin. And why wouldn't they?

Remember that Bill Clinton, for all his failures, is probably still the most loved US President. Why? Because things were good while he was in charge.

Look at this Russian economic data: https://www.quandl.com/c/russia/russia-economy-data

For better or worse, for all Putin's perceived downsides, Russia is better off than it's ever been. Sanctions and all. In fact, most economists are projecting a 5% reduction in GDP due to sanctions. That will put them at 2013 levels of prosperity, which is still way, way above where they were only a decade ago, never mind in 2000.

Re: A Russian TV Insider Describes a Modern Propaganda Machine

#84

> a prominent news anchor reviewed the coming events as if they were part of a film script, musing on how best to entertain the audience and questioning who that week’s enemy should be. Having avoided traditional American news sources for a long time (10+ years), whenever I get a glimpse of it now (especially cable news sources), I always got the sense that this is exactly how American news is produced.

Russia is a small country (as population and industry) compared to US and EU. It cant afford to reinvent the way a modern society, government, media, etc. works. The state propaganda machine is a direct copy of what the US and especially the UK governments have built.

"State propaganda machine" presupposes state control of all media outlets. Which is true for Russia, but is not true in any western country.

If you don't believe me, just google what different TV channels or online magazines said about obama care. Some praised it to the high heavens, others made it out to be the antichrist. If Obama really controlled all "his" media, that should have gone a lot better...

Re: A Russian TV Insider Describes a Modern Propaganda Machine

#85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your link is, while great, completely unrelated.

lol!! I am cracking up!! How did that happen!?? Considering the grim dystopian subject matter here this is hilarious! Will fix it now!

This is what I accidentally posted btw https://vimeo.com/6773929

Re: A Russian TV Insider Describes a Modern Propaganda Machine

#86
post #61
post #26

Public indoctrination through control of the media is easily the most pressing problem of our days. Far more important than that of the global warming, for example, simply because it blocks meaningful discussion on the subjects that really matter. While the public opinion is manipulated both in the US and in Russia, the methods and outcomes are vastly different. For a diligent study of the US media manipulation I hig…

Chomsky, unfortunately, is not the most rigorous guy when it comes to empiricism. Look at how he interpreted the Khmer Rouge genocide http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambodian_genocide_denial#Choms... He defended them saying that what we said about the Kh R was Western propaganda, etc. Years later, when the truth became undeniable, he defended his actions saying, but well, I couldn't very well know they were so bad and…

Single-sided "news" reports can be right in some cases and wrong in others. Given that there is no way to verify them, they are obviously untrustworthy at that time, even if later they turn out to be correct. When evaluating one-sided reports absent a different perspective, your best bet is to weight in the biases and the track record of the people reporting it. I'm not sure why you have a problem with that line of reasoning. If anything this is empiricism.

Even if he was wrong about his stance on KhR, how does that affect validity of the book? The book cites all of its sources and makes its conclusions in broad daylight, so it's entirely possible to have a productive discussion about the contents and the arguments being made, without discuss the person making those arguments.

Re: A Russian TV Insider Describes a Modern Propaganda Machine

#87

Funny story: In Germany there is currently a "movement" of people calling for stricter immigration control (to abbreviate an endless discussion about what they actually want), called Pegida. During one of their demonstrations a comedy/satire show dressed up an actor as a "Russian" journalist from "Russia Today", a news caster/online magazine financed by the Russian state. The Pegida participants were very willing to…

Actually this shows the opposite. The mainstream media is unwilling to engage in discussion with someone who is anti-immigration (unless that person is is an Israeli politician). Instead they do cheap tricks to humiliate the speaker without addressing their actual arguments. The mainstream media, like all people, has the accusation of "racism" hanging over their heads so they are unable to speak freely on topics like…

Unwilling to engage? You seem to watch the wrong shows... I've seen tons of interviews with people advocating immigration control. Some where even quite friendly.

There is a problem you don't seem to have noticed: The AFD Party does not only advocate tighter immigration control, but it also wants to hold offices. So if the news media document the utter failure of this party to even conduct their basic business without minor and major scandals, it saves us from voting some complete idiot into office.

And where they got into office they continue to disappoint. Some just quit the party, others don't do any constructive work, some collaborate with the extreme right (and then they say they didn't).

The media has an obligation to inform the public about the quality of politicians. That the AFD mostly fields ridiculously incompetent or inadequate candidates is not the media's fault.

Re: A Russian TV Insider Describes a Modern Propaganda Machine

#88
post #86
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chomsky, unfortunately, is not the most rigorous guy when it comes to empiricism. Look at how he interpreted the Khmer Rouge genocide http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambodian_genocide_denial#Choms... He defended them saying that what we said about the Kh R was Western propaganda, etc. Years later, when the truth became undeniable, he defended his actions saying, but well, I couldn't very well know they were so bad and…

Single-sided "news" reports can be right in some cases and wrong in others. Given that there is no way to verify them, they are obviously untrustworthy at that time, even if later they turn out to be correct. When evaluating one-sided reports absent a different perspective, your best bet is to weight in the biases and the track record of the people reporting it. I'm not sure why you have a problem with that line of r…

It's not as though there were not refugees streaming out of the country recounting the atrocities and the difficulties they faced escaping the regime. Look, the first two years, the KCP itself thought it was illegitimate that it had no name. They didn't even acknowledge they existed.

All you have to do is listen the population. When you have thousands of escapees and refugees recounting the same horrible things, it's not a sinister "propaganda plot".

I've heard the stories from actual escapees who still have nightmares from when they trudged though unknown jungle for months not knowing if they'd see another day, not less make it out free. Decomposing bodies, where you might see a cow, in previous times, so in all kinds of places, you din't know who might turn you in, hunger, dispossession, etc.

Re: A Russian TV Insider Describes a Modern Propaganda Machine

#89
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

RT is pure propaganda. We have now a German program by RT. Website: http://www.rtdeutsch.com Straight from Putin's mouth...

The situation is a lot worse in post-soviet countries in the EU like Bulgaria and Romania. When the regime fell the same people who ruled during that era staged everything so they remained in power. From political and official power to power through capital and corruption. A known mafia boss (Delyan Peevski) has control of over 50% of the newspapers and 80% of the distribution of all newspapers through another compan…

Emmigrate to Germany...

Re: A Russian TV Insider Describes a Modern Propaganda Machine

#90
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you know you are brainwashed, you obviously know the "truth". So how come you know the truth but believe the truth isn't told? You see my point?

> If you know you are brainwashed, you obviously know the "truth". We never really know the truth. I can tell you what I ate this morning, and I can tell you that the sky is blue (maybe blue-greyish today). The point is that too many people believe what they see on CNN, and assume it's the absolute truth. People base their world view upon curated news without questioning anything. Here's a great interview by Larry Ki…

I think watching shitty TV shows is slightly better than drinking ungodly amounts of wodka...
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