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How One Stupid Tweet Blew Up Justine Sacco’s Life

nytimes.com

241–250 of 596 posts

Re: How One Stupid Tweet Blew Up Justine Sacco’s Life

#241
post #118

"The woman who took the photograph, Adria Richards, soon felt the wrath of the crowd herself. The man responsible for the dongle joke had posted about losing his job on Hacker News, an online forum popular with developers. This led to a backlash from the other end of the political spectrum. So-called men’s rights activists and anonymous trolls bombarded Richards with death threats on Twitter and Facebook." Wow, this…

A taste of her own medicine. It shouldn't have happened, but at least she only got what she gave.

She gave death threats?

Re: How One Stupid Tweet Blew Up Justine Sacco’s Life

#242

Comedians say much worse on a daily basis and rarely catch any flack. Are regular people not allowed to make jokes?

That is my issue with this. Daniel Tosh makes sexist, racist, and rape jokes on a daily basis and people at large aren't up in arms threatening to strike if he visits their workplace. To me this says these psuedo-activists care more about picking on an easy target than actually preventing hurtful speech. Not to mention the hypocrisy of many of those tweets when they call her a bitch, or send her death threats.

Re: How One Stupid Tweet Blew Up Justine Sacco’s Life

#243

This is the reality of social media. If you offend the wrong person, you will most likely get fired from your job and or get unwanted attention in other parts of your life..all for just expressing an opinion. It's essentially online bullying by people that want to silence you for having an opinion that is different than their own. The ex-Mozilla CEO knows this well. An online bullying campaign was launched against hi…

Replace "offend the wrong person" with "do something really f*cking stupid" - which is what she did - and the outcome seems fair.

No one deserves to be bullied or harassed but consequences need to exist to actions.

Re: How One Stupid Tweet Blew Up Justine Sacco’s Life

#244
post #2

So far, what I see is: "Don't use Twitter." And on the smaller side is "Don't upload shit to social media."

You missed the bigger point, then: Mob justice is a barbaric and ugly thing; stop patting yourself on the back and thinking you're a good person for being a part of it.

Actually he hit it right on the nail. The takeaway is don't use twitter, and say nothing. That mob justice is just a secondary takeaway.

Re: How One Stupid Tweet Blew Up Justine Sacco’s Life

#245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's an "MRA loser"?

"MRA is short for Men's Rights Activist. MRAs argue that, as human beings, men should have human rights, due process in legal matters, and should not be subject to "reverse discrimination" in favor of other groups. MRAs typically point to men's lower life expectancy in almost every country, higher rates of incarceration, more severe penalties for similar offenses, lower rates of health care spending and health resear…

So how does any of that make you a loser? What's going on in this thread? As far as I can tell it's nothing more than a similar type of bullying the article is itself is talking about, which I didn't ever expect to see on HN, let alone tolerated.

At what point can you no longer express controversial opinions without being called a loser?

Re: How One Stupid Tweet Blew Up Justine Sacco’s Life

#246

As a german i have to ask: Why do people get fired over things like this? Are american worker employee protection laws so weak that there is no recourse whatsoever for them?

Here's how worker protection laws work in the U.S.

1) For any given case, yeah, there's probably no protection. This is because we love freedom. No, really. Well, if you can get an honest answer from politicians and CEOs that's not the reason, but to the average "man on the street" who's against stronger worker protections, that's the reason. That or unemployment scaremongering. Really.

2) On the off chance that there is a law, and you know there is, can you afford to be without work and to pay lawyers long enough to fight to have it enforced? Do you even know where to begin? If not, nothing happens. (think minimum wage workers)

3) Is it worth even a small risk of a de facto blacklisting in your industry, permanently limiting your future employment options (and therefore how much you earn)? If not, nothing happens. This is related to the "everyone Googles you these days" thing mentioned in the article. (professionals, skilled trades)

In the end it's riskier for to individuals, on average, to fight these things than it is for businesses to break the law, so little is ever done. That's assuming there was even a law to be broken.

Collective action (class action lawsuits, for example) can help but is nearly impossible to organize effectively without unions, which we've been successfully convinced to hate on principle. Every so often there's a lawsuit, businesses are slapped with fine that's a rounding error in their account books, everything goes on as normal.

Re: How One Stupid Tweet Blew Up Justine Sacco’s Life

#247

This is the reality of social media. If you offend the wrong person, you will most likely get fired from your job and or get unwanted attention in other parts of your life..all for just expressing an opinion. It's essentially online bullying by people that want to silence you for having an opinion that is different than their own. The ex-Mozilla CEO knows this well. An online bullying campaign was launched against hi…

This and many other problems are instantly rectified when one stops using shit like twitter or fb. Communicating with friends? fine, perfectly acceptable, PM or share with some reduced circle. Trying to be funny in the world where someone could get butthurt over a joke that was snooped from the conversation not intended for their ears? You're asking for it (for the lack of better wording). And yes I do realize the ir…

A tweet is not part of a private conversation and the user in question should have known that - particularly considering their profession.

Twitter & FB aren't the problem. A lack of awareness and judgement is.

Re: How One Stupid Tweet Blew Up Justine Sacco’s Life

#248

French guy here. This article only speak about employees in american company getting fired about some data shared on the web. But I would be curious to know what happened to people who faced the same situation working in continental european companies. It would be surprising if people would lost their jobs so easily. Either because I think it's culturally better accepted for private people (I mean not public figures)…

This is interesting. I wonder where the line is drawn, though (surely there are some ways to get fired by saying something in Europe). I believe that it will soon become necessary for some sort of online bill of rights which protects one's identit(y,ies) and privacy.

I'll reply only in regards of french law here but be aware I'm no lawyer. The basis is the following. You can fire someone for repeatedly public attacks targeting another employee, or a client. Then if the fired employee thing you're wrong then a kind of court dedicated to work legislation will decide if you have enough element to have him fired or not.

Re: How One Stupid Tweet Blew Up Justine Sacco’s Life

#249

This is the reality of social media. If you offend the wrong person, you will most likely get fired from your job and or get unwanted attention in other parts of your life..all for just expressing an opinion. It's essentially online bullying by people that want to silence you for having an opinion that is different than their own. The ex-Mozilla CEO knows this well. An online bullying campaign was launched against hi…

Oh for fuck's sake, not this again.

Re: How One Stupid Tweet Blew Up Justine Sacco’s Life

#250

French guy here. This article only speak about employees in american company getting fired about some data shared on the web. But I would be curious to know what happened to people who faced the same situation working in continental european companies. It would be surprising if people would lost their jobs so easily. Either because I think it's culturally better accepted for private people (I mean not public figures)…

Well, in Europe the tradition of mobbing is a serious problem, and its definitely something that occurs on a regular basis in the real world, and not just on the Internet. In Germany, people have been fired for instigating the mob - not necessarily for saying things that offend others, but rather for rabble-rousing and trying to get the pitchfork brigade riled up.

I think Europe has a keener sense of the history of this activity, because the artifacts of prior historical mobbing are abundant. You only have to take a walk through Prague, Budapest, Berlin to see just how this is reflected in European sensibilities - whereas in the US, its a less overt historical fact. Americans are very loud about things, Europeans often very reserved and conservative, but there is fundamentally no difference between the cultures: both are capable of succumbing to cannibalistic, collective-reactive urges. I witnessed this factor countless times in my experience living in the US (I'm not American), most severely during the Rodney King riots. People form a kind of super-being in a mob, a near God-like entity, which can perform powerful acts - go to the moon, solve humanitarian crises, and so on. But it can also turn vicious and heinous as well, and there seems to be some sort of scale upon which the tone of activity can be plotted. I don't think there is a difference in scales for European versus American societies; just that the fact of observation of the energy of the mob is louder in some cultures that have evolved to profit from that loudness - America, in this case. Celebrity/Entertainment culture being what it is in the US, I think its just a brighter shade of pale than, for example, the French may be used to - but its the same basic color.

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