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Your close-minded disdain for anti-vaxxers isn't helping anyone

theweek.com

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Re: Your close-minded disdain for anti-vaxxers isn't helping anyone

#11
post #8
post #4

As an epidemiologist, what the author doesn't get is that we have been empathetic. We have been patient. We have explained, using everything from complex math to simple metaphor how vaccination works to protect populations. We have spent millions of dollars and person-hours of valuable research time chasing down the ghosts of anti-vaxx fantasy to make sure there's nothing to them. We have let VAERS become irrevocably…

Wakefield was one of your own and VAERS takes reports from the medical community. Vaccine rates are pretty high. If they're effective then they should be effective for the 90%+ people taking them. Meanwhile Ebola with >50% mortality is raging and the medical community is up in arms over measles.

This comment proves that you don't understand what you're talking about. I'm not trying to be condescending -- I've learned a lot about this recently due to the outbreak, and I encourage you to do some reading as well.

Some vaccines are very effective at the individual level. Others are not, and so the safety of any individual is reliant on herd immunity. So when you say "they should be effective", I don't know if you mean to prevent an individual's illness or to prevent an outbreak. Either way, vaccines are not just intended to be effective for the individual -- they're intended to protect an entire society.

As far as Ebola: the medical community is certainly up in arms over that, as well. It's a huge crisis, and millions are being poured into its treatment and prevention.

The problem with Ebola is that there's a massive cultural barrier. Many of the most at-risk people are afraid of vaccines, and some of them totally misunderstand how Ebola is spread. Those two situations are getting better, but it's much harder of a situation to solve.

The reason you're reading so much about measles is that it's affecting a wealthy, educated country, and it's directly caused by misinformation from the "anti-vaxxer" movement. It's alarming because it's a backslide, and we know it's preventable because we did such a good job preventing it for so long.

Re: Your close-minded disdain for anti-vaxxers isn't helping anyone

#12
post #8
post #4

As an epidemiologist, what the author doesn't get is that we have been empathetic. We have been patient. We have explained, using everything from complex math to simple metaphor how vaccination works to protect populations. We have spent millions of dollars and person-hours of valuable research time chasing down the ghosts of anti-vaxx fantasy to make sure there's nothing to them. We have let VAERS become irrevocably…

Wakefield was one of your own and VAERS takes reports from the medical community. Vaccine rates are pretty high. If they're effective then they should be effective for the 90%+ people taking them. Meanwhile Ebola with >50% mortality is raging and the medical community is up in arms over measles.

VAERS takes reports from anyone, and isn't allowed to remove spurious reports. Someone once reported a vaccine turned them into the Incredible Hulk, and they cannot, by law remove it.

Vaccination rates are not pretty high when you're talking about highly contagious diseases. Measles has an R0 of roughly 16-18, which translates to a critical threshold of ~94% needing to be vaccinated in order to have herd immunity, assuming 100% efficacy. There are many communities below that threshold.

Wakefield isn't one of our own. We kicked him out for being a fraud.

Ebola is subject to a major public health response. I have friends in Sierra Leone. The 101st Airborne, the CDC, Doctors without Borders and many other groups are all in West Africa. Access to intensive care is driving down the mortality for Ebola. Believe me, there are still a huge amount of resources being spent on Ebola containment. We're capable of being worried about more than one disease at the same time.

Of course, we wouldn't have to be if people were vaccinated against measles.

Re: Your close-minded disdain for anti-vaxxers isn't helping anyone

#13
post #10
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> several vaccines have been taken off the market This is what I mean by atrocious record. Not with vaccines specifically, but looking across all medications. Anyhow if you can point me to double-blind placebo controlled studies on all the major vaccines, please do.

Two rotavirus vaccines were suspected of causing a rare but serious side effect (that they actually caused it at higher rates is somewhat less clear). They were immediately pulled off the market, and replaced with a vaccine that doesn't cause said side effect - which has been vigilantly monitored with post-market studies ever since. A smattering of double-blind RCTs for you: https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT001…

I think doctors will need to get over these ethical issues before immunization could ever be compulsory. It's just as unethical to force a treatment that's not been properly tested on a population, as it is to not expose them to that treatment.
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