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F.C.C. Is Expected to Propose Regulating the Internet as a Utility

nytimes.com

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Re: F.C.C. Is Expected to Propose Regulating the Internet as a Utility

#91

Post by cheald »

amputect wrote: post #52
supergeek133 wrote: post #4

I get what they're trying to accomplish, we all want faster more reliable service, but as comparison is anyone 100% happy with their utility (power, water, etc)? That's where this is headed.

My tap water is clean and delicious and I have never, ever had a problem with it. I have never experienced an unscheduled service interruption with my water, and scheduled service interruptions are very rare and advertised well in advance. My electricity is stable and reliable, and any power outages I've experienced have been brief, and exclusively due to exceptional weather events. I'm also a Comcast customer, and I…

Comparing Title II utilities to water and electricity is silly. How happy are you with your landline telephone and cable TV services? You know, the ones that everyone hates and is replacing with internet-carried alternatives?

Re: F.C.C. Is Expected to Propose Regulating the Internet as a Utility

#92

Post by bratsche »

cranklin wrote: post #48
HelloMcFly wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not 100% happy with my utility companies, but I'm 500% more satisfied with them than any cable company I've ever had.

I can dump my cable company if they piss me off. I can't do that with my utility companies

In my area, the cable provider is the only one that offers somewhat fast speeds. Whenever they overcharge me and I spend hours sorting it out (this has happened a few times) with them I wish I could switch, but DSL is just not fast enough for working remotely.

I don't have other options for all my other utilities, but so far they have overcharged me and screwed things up royally exactly zero times.

Re: F.C.C. Is Expected to Propose Regulating the Internet as a Utility

#93

Post by thissideup »

metaphorm wrote: post #82
thissideup wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Explain how the two ideas aren't related.

that's not how this works. you're the one that made the original unsubstantiated claim. the burden is now on you to substantiate your original claim. explain the mechanism by which classifying internet service as a utility enhances the ability of the NSA to record that data.

I already did. Read the comment thread.

It's pretty obvious, but if no one wants to think about it I can't make them.

Re: F.C.C. Is Expected to Propose Regulating the Internet as a Utility

#94

Post by dkhenry »

I understand the desire to regulate the internet as a utility, but are they going to actually regulate it like a utility or are they going to call it a common carrier and then just make up a few BS rules that need to be followed.

I have a sinking feeling that all this will result in is a situation where monopolies are given out to the existing players and no one is forced to do anything to upgrade the existing service.

This isn't like a water utility where the product has little variance. Even now in the marketplace there is huge variance in the quality of the product I can buy ( I am one of the lucky few with choices of providers ). I have a feeling my area is just going to get given a blanket monopoly to Comcast and I will have to deal with a crappy connection forever with no hope of another company ever gaining traction to replace them.

Re: F.C.C. Is Expected to Propose Regulating the Internet as a Utility

#95

Post by nemo »

emcrazyone wrote: post #65
ceejayoz wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I get what they're trying to accomplish, we all want faster more reliable service, but as comparison is anyone 100% happy with their utility (power, water, etc)? I am. My water is clean and I've never had an outage. My power is reasonably cheap and quite reliable. The state doesn't allow either one to raise rates exorbitantly from year to year, either, and despite that both have made major upgrades to their facilit…

this is a ridiculous comparison. You can't compare water, gas, and electrics to the likes of providing Internet. Gas, electric, water are either on or off. Internet connections come with tons of setup pitfalls. A bad DNS can make it appear your Internet is out in one way, while a broken cable inside the house can make it look broken another way and a virus on a computer is another. It's just not a simple check and yo…

The power grid is not simple. It's a highly complex system that requires constant monitoring and adjustment by power companies to ensure consistent delivery that's not much different than what an ISP should be doing.

A bad circuit breaker or wiring issues can make it look like problems that someone might blame on the grid, there are user-side config issues there too.

"And if Obama care (healthcare.gov) is any indication of the US Government's ability to manage or enact such things, I'd be worried too."

It would still be the ISPs responsibility to manage their issues, there's no isp.gov planned.

Re: F.C.C. Is Expected to Propose Regulating the Internet as a Utility

#96

Post by pnathan »

supergeek133 wrote: post #4

I get what they're trying to accomplish, we all want faster more reliable service, but as comparison is anyone 100% happy with their utility (power, water, etc)? That's where this is headed.

The telcos in the US are uniformly obnoxious and offensive in their delight in advertising, fees, etc, and trying to rip me off in all sorts of ways. Without a doubt, if the City Internet & Federal Mobile Phone Service were as "just works" and "no marketing" as the septic system and the water system, it would be a measurable quality of life increase.

It's also worth contemplating if the brute fact of the matter is that public goods & natural monopolies (cable companies, cell towers perhaps) should be regulated as a utility. Particularly if the preferred mechanisms for interacting with a government in the US require/highly suggest the use of a computer or cell phone. If that assumption is being made (and it is), then it's not just a luxury, or even a popular service... it's becoming a common utility.

Re: F.C.C. Is Expected to Propose Regulating the Internet as a Utility

#97

Post by Terr_ »

emcrazyone wrote: post #65
ceejayoz wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I get what they're trying to accomplish, we all want faster more reliable service, but as comparison is anyone 100% happy with their utility (power, water, etc)? I am. My water is clean and I've never had an outage. My power is reasonably cheap and quite reliable. The state doesn't allow either one to raise rates exorbitantly from year to year, either, and despite that both have made major upgrades to their facilit…

this is a ridiculous comparison. You can't compare water, gas, and electrics to the likes of providing Internet. Gas, electric, water are either on or off. Internet connections come with tons of setup pitfalls. A bad DNS can make it appear your Internet is out in one way, while a broken cable inside the house can make it look broken another way and a virus on a computer is another. It's just not a simple check and yo…

"It's not a utility unless you can clearly assign blame for all possible outages"?

Fuck no! My appliances' fuses might burn out, my home breakers might be tripped, and my neighbor might dig into a powerline, but electricity is still "a utility".

It's a style of business relationship, with the regulatory, legal, and social expectations that come with it. The technology (and failure modes) are secondary at best.

Re: F.C.C. Is Expected to Propose Regulating the Internet as a Utility

#98

Post by Eric_WVGG »

higherpurpose wrote: post #15

Wait, doesn't calling the Internet a utility mean all data will be metered by the MB from now on? Or does that not apply here? If it does, wouldn't that give carriers exactly what they wanted - the ability to charge video providers much more than they would say a news website? The idea behind the whole net neutrality movement was to have "all you can eat plans" where all data is treated the same. What if now we get t…

I think it helps to consider it a utility in the same way that the US system of roads and highways is “a utility” (information superhighway, you hoary old chestnut)

Re: F.C.C. Is Expected to Propose Regulating the Internet as a Utility

#99

Post by mbreese »

supergeek133 wrote: post #4

I get what they're trying to accomplish, we all want faster more reliable service, but as comparison is anyone 100% happy with their utility (power, water, etc)? That's where this is headed.

I have power with 99.9% reliability and my water is usually pretty good quality. The only issues I've had with water (ever) is that recently there has been so much conservation in CA that the system wasn't designed to handle (ironic, no?).

So, I'd be okay with that service.

Re: F.C.C. Is Expected to Propose Regulating the Internet as a Utility

#100

Post by 0xdeadbeefbabe »

ctl wrote: post #85
djrogers wrote: post #13

Setting aside the ultimate politics and ramifications of this, it is interesting (and kind of scary) to watch the fight between a non-elected bureaucracy and our elected house of representatives to regulate the internet. Congress seems to be completely incapable of doing more than grandstanding, while the bureaucrats may wind up dramatically increasing their own power with a single stroke of their unelected pens. It'…

You're complaining about the system... in response to a powerful instance of the system working correctly? What?

Yes, perhaps one instance, but the system hasn't finished its work yet.
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