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F.C.C. Is Expected to Propose Regulating the Internet as a Utility

nytimes.com

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Re: F.C.C. Is Expected to Propose Regulating the Internet as a Utility

#61

Post by Amezarak »

higherpurpose wrote: post #15

Wait, doesn't calling the Internet a utility mean all data will be metered by the MB from now on? Or does that not apply here? If it does, wouldn't that give carriers exactly what they wanted - the ability to charge video providers much more than they would say a news website? The idea behind the whole net neutrality movement was to have "all you can eat plans" where all data is treated the same. What if now we get t…

> Wait, doesn't calling the Internet a utility mean all data will be metered by the MB from now on? Or does that not apply here?

No, it does not mean metered Internet, which is already increasingly common in the US - though usually in the form of x GB for $y, with $z/GB overages. This has actually become incredibly common. There isn't a single ISP in my state that doesn't have data caps with metered Internet thereafter, or, in the case of my ISP, mandatory upgrades (though even then, the most expensive plan has a cap of 1TB.)

> So what does it mean now that the government classifies all Internet under Title 2. What can we expect in terms of surveillance?

Nothing changes.

Re: F.C.C. Is Expected to Propose Regulating the Internet as a Utility

#62

Post by chc »

djrogers wrote: post #46
skywhopper wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's worth noting that these "unelected bureaucrats" are nominated by a President for limited terms and confirmed by the Senate, and that all powers they have are bestowed upon them by Congress and can be revoked, and that their regulations have to fit within restrictions that are defined and may be revised by Congress. It's certainly not pretty, but it's not unaccountable, and it seems to be moving things in the gen…

>> their regulations have to fit within restrictions that are defined and may be revised by Congress This is only notionally true, and history is replete with examples of federal agencies declaring their own authority over things which were obviously not envisioned so. While congress could act to change that, they don't, so power collects.

That's usually because Congress doesn't object. You may as well say Congress is unaccountable because of public apathy.

Re: F.C.C. Is Expected to Propose Regulating the Internet as a Utility

#63

Post by rkuykendall-com »

cranklin wrote: post #48
HelloMcFly wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not 100% happy with my utility companies, but I'm 500% more satisfied with them than any cable company I've ever had.

I can dump my cable company if they piss me off. I can't do that with my utility companies

Most Americans can't dump their cable company.

Re: F.C.C. Is Expected to Propose Regulating the Internet as a Utility

#64

Post by thissideup »

ceejayoz wrote: post #40
thissideup wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Explain how the two ideas aren't related.

Classifying the Internet as a utility doesn't change the various Three Letter Agencies' ability nor motiviations to surveil traffic.

You are restating exactly what you already said. Maybe you didn't understand.

Taxation implies increased tracking and auditing of the good being taxed, in this context surveillance could be justifiable.

Perhaps you're unable to imagine these consequences, but your claim that they have nothing to do with one another is just ignorant.

Re: F.C.C. Is Expected to Propose Regulating the Internet as a Utility

#65

Post by emcrazyone »

ceejayoz wrote: post #18
supergeek133 wrote: post #4

I get what they're trying to accomplish, we all want faster more reliable service, but as comparison is anyone 100% happy with their utility (power, water, etc)? That's where this is headed.

> I get what they're trying to accomplish, we all want faster more reliable service, but as comparison is anyone 100% happy with their utility (power, water, etc)? I am. My water is clean and I've never had an outage. My power is reasonably cheap and quite reliable. The state doesn't allow either one to raise rates exorbitantly from year to year, either, and despite that both have made major upgrades to their facilit…

this is a ridiculous comparison. You can't compare water, gas, and electrics to the likes of providing Internet. Gas, electric, water are either on or off. Internet connections come with tons of setup pitfalls. A bad DNS can make it appear your Internet is out in one way, while a broken cable inside the house can make it look broken another way and a virus on a computer is another.

It's just not a simple check and you're not going to find people to fix your internet with a proverbial wrench. When is the last time your water pipe had a virus? It will often taken digging into the problem with a fair bit of domain knowledge. And if Obama care (healthcare.gov) is any indication of the US Government's ability to manage or enact such things, I'd be worried too.

Every time this topic comes up, people like to try and compare it to the utilities services and you just can't.

Re: F.C.C. Is Expected to Propose Regulating the Internet as a Utility

#66

Post by IanDrake »

freehunter wrote: post #47
IanDrake wrote: post #23

That will be a sad day. Internet technology still has a lot of room to improve before the government steps in and kills all market forces that encourage those improvements. If you don't like your current service levels now, just wait until the government gets involved.

>market forces that encourage those improvements. Like a Comcast monopoly? You mean those market forces?

Comcast is not a monopoly. This is the sort of misunderstanding that I'm talking about. AT&T was a monopoly and the USPO is still a first class mail monopoly.

I suspect Comcast is just the best option in your location and you're dissatisfied with it. Bummer for you, and I sincerely mean that.

When industries get regulated by the government they get "protected". Protected from upstarts with new and better technology, protected from cheaper alternatives, protected from dissatisfied customers, and generally protected from all market forces.

Re: F.C.C. Is Expected to Propose Regulating the Internet as a Utility

#67

Post by joshuaheard »

supergeek133 wrote: post #4

I get what they're trying to accomplish, we all want faster more reliable service, but as comparison is anyone 100% happy with their utility (power, water, etc)? That's where this is headed.

I live in Washington state where it rains constantly, buy my water bill is about $200/month. Likewise, my power bill for a family of 5 is $400 per month. My power company still uses power poles to transmit electricity, like they have done is the 1800s. Meanwhile, we lost electricity for days during the last storm.

I argue that with competition, electric companies could innovate their distribution, ie bury the power lines, and the price of water would be cheaper.

Re: F.C.C. Is Expected to Propose Regulating the Internet as a Utility

#68

Post by sliverstorm »

Shivetya wrote: post #28
supergeek133 wrote: post #4

I get what they're trying to accomplish, we all want faster more reliable service, but as comparison is anyone 100% happy with their utility (power, water, etc)? That's where this is headed.

As in, better be damn happy with the speed you have now because you ain't going to get faster anytime soon. Well unless your lucky and someone politically connected on your street. Going back to the days before cable, when high speed was whatever the regulated its a utility phone company decided I was allowed to have There is no free lunch and regulation will just mean normalization at best, to the lowest allowed num…

Going back to the days before cable, when high speed was whatever the regulated its a utility phone company decided I was allowed to have

What did you get, and what did you want instead?

Re: F.C.C. Is Expected to Propose Regulating the Internet as a Utility

#69

Post by bluthru »

supergeek133 wrote: post #4

I get what they're trying to accomplish, we all want faster more reliable service, but as comparison is anyone 100% happy with their utility (power, water, etc)? That's where this is headed.

>but as comparison is anyone 100% happy with their utility (power, water, etc)?

Yes. Do you remember what happened in California when power was deregulated and Enron was causing brownouts?

Compared to my private utilities (phone and home internet) I freaking love my public utilities.

Re: F.C.C. Is Expected to Propose Regulating the Internet as a Utility

#70

Post by sliverstorm »

brandonmenc wrote: post #56
punkcoder wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I call the water company, I don't talk to some guy in India who has never heard of my state, let alone my city. When the power and water go out, the service isn't great but compared to my internet provider it would be a huge improvement. YMMV.

I don't think net neutrality will dictate that support staff be located in America.

No, but part of the idea is that you will get small local providers again (like you did fifteen to twenty years ago), and five-man companies don't usually outsource tech support to India.
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