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Windows 10 for Raspberry Pi 2

dev.windows.com

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Re: Windows 10 for Raspberry Pi 2

#71

Post by dagw »

nkuttler wrote: post #53
nmeofthestate wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Windows seems very much contrary to the goal of the Raspberry Pi: providing a device for children to tinker with and educate themselves" "Windows is closed as ever" Are these kids hacking on the Linux kernel or something? Of course not. They will be using some app/language running on the OS. They don't need access to the OS source to do that. Seems to me Windows is a perfectly open enough OS to act as a platform for…

> Seems to me Windows is a perfectly open enough OS to act as a platform for tinkering and learning about computers. Maybe, but Linux just seems more convenient. I mean, can you install gcc, golang, nodejs, python, ruby, ghc, lua (...) on windows with a single command? And all the other tools you might want to use, like editors, databases? And you will never know if they want to do kernel-level coding if they don't h…

can you install gcc, golang, nodejs, python, ruby, ghc, lua (...) on windows with a single command

Yes! Just install chocolaty and type

   cinst git 
   cinst mingw
   cinst vim
   (and so on)
Prior to Windows 10 it is a third party tool and not officially supported by windows. However starting with Windows 10 windows will ship with a version of this command called OneGet and it will be be officially part of windows.

Re: Windows 10 for Raspberry Pi 2

#72

Post by eterm »

watty wrote: post #62
anilgulecha wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this was answered. It's bad because teachers would push for a platform they presumably know more about -- Windows.

And there's nothing wrong with that. Kids will be more productive on Windows and more likely be able to take those skills with them. How many kids need to know linux in the future? Here's what the Linux trend looks like: http://www.google.com/trends/explore#q=linux

>Kids will be more productive on Windows

Citation needed.

Re: Windows 10 for Raspberry Pi 2

#73

Post by belgianguy »

I don't think Microsoft is doing it for the Open-Source spirit, as many seem to believe. They have a long history of attacking/smearing open source and displaying a "I heart Linux" slide is not sufficient to erase all the FUD and their questionable software patent licensing schemes (which are completely anti-open). They called Linux a cancer, even.

I think they're approaching this from a redundancy point of view, if person X already has Windows on his desktop (on which they have the market cornered), provide them with subsidized Windows platforms on other hardware where the monopoly is not yet in place. This then would cause the interest in other platforms to dwindle, as people would flock to what they know. Here also the EET mantra could come into play again, by offering features not available to other platforms.

They need a foothold in other hardware, most likely for the coming of Internet Of Things.

It makes business sense for them to increase their reach, but don't think that equals Microsoft being fond of Open-Source.

Re: Windows 10 for Raspberry Pi 2

#74

Post by bohol »

throwawayaway wrote: post #61
bohol wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you overestimate the need for access to the OS for learning things. The cracking scene, demoscene and games industry was almost exclusively built on Windows. A lot of that was just as, if not more, advanced as what a Linux programmer does. I do think the trend of iOS, Android and similar Windows environments is troubling. But if they ship Windows 10 on the RPi with something like QBasic and Visual Studio it's…

> The cracking scene, demoscene and games industry was almost exclusively built on Windows. A lot of that was just as, if not more, advanced as what a Linux programmer does. I think you mean commodore, or atari. Windows gaming came a long long time afterwards. It is more advanced in some ways but it does not beget OS programmers, like an open source OS does. If OS programmers die out, we're in very deep trouble.

No, while nostalgic, the Commodore and Atari scene were tiny in comparison. Since the mid nineties people have learned graphics programming and reverse engineering primarily on Windows.

It's not like OS programming is going away, but it has always been mostly a university thing.

And you could say we already are in big trouble. Since the ecosystem for multimedia weren't (and isn't) very good on Linux a lot of qualified user software exist on other platforms. Industrial, scientific, medical, music, film etc.

Re: Windows 10 for Raspberry Pi 2

#75

Post by threeseed »

psykovsky wrote: post #34
supercoder wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dunno, Windows has always seemed to enjoy running on cheap hardware.

Linux also. From the consumer market, only OS X/iOS demands over-priced hardware to run.

Premium not over-priced. I am still yet to find any laptop with the build or trackpad quality of any of the MacBooks.

Re: Windows 10 for Raspberry Pi 2

#76

Post by Filthy_casual »

belgianguy wrote: post #73

I don't think Microsoft is doing it for the Open-Source spirit, as many seem to believe. They have a long history of attacking/smearing open source and displaying a "I heart Linux" slide is not sufficient to erase all the FUD and their questionable software patent licensing schemes (which are completely anti-open). They called Linux a cancer, even. I think they're approaching this from a redundancy point of view, if…

Can we stop with this argument? Every time a business makes a business-oriented decision someone will pop out to call them out for being acting for their own benefit, as if it's somehow bad.

Like every human exchange, you don't have to be an altruist for your deed to be good. It's alright to do "good" even if it derives some sort of benefit for yourself or your company.

Re: Windows 10 for Raspberry Pi 2

#77

Post by morganvachon »

cliffbean wrote: post #41

While most people don't hack kernel code themselves, there is still value in promoting open source operating systems. A future in which Windows becomes popular on mobile/embedded devices is likely a future with more binary blobs, more OS-locked hardware, and fewer opportunities for those people who do want to hack on kernel code.

> A future in which Windows becomes popular on mobile/embedded devices is likely a future with more binary blobs, more OS-locked hardware, and fewer opportunities for those people who do want to hack on kernel code.

I just can't agree with that. F/OSS fan that I am, I still think the same opportunities will exist whether Windows runs on a particular piece of hardware or not. After all, GNU/Linux and BSD have flourished despite Windows running on the same hardware for the past 30 years. How is this any different? I see it as opening up new channels for learning, not closing them off.

To look at it another way, this is similar to Microsoft being late to the party on modern smartphones. The existence of Windows Phone 7 and 8 has done absolutely nothing to slow down the explosion of popularity in Android and iOS phones.

I don't foresee a huge percentage of Raspberry Pi owners jumping ship to Windows 10; maybe dabbling with it but that's it. As far as we know, GNU/Linux will continue to offer a superior learning experience.

Re: Windows 10 for Raspberry Pi 2

#78

Post by watty »

nkuttler wrote: post #68
watty wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I completely disagree. I used Ubuntu for a year and I spent more time fixing things or trying to do things in the OS than I have in all other operating systems combined. My nephew tried to install Ubuntu on his new build and hit brick wall after brick wall trying to install the OS and Minecraft. It simply hasn't gotten easy enough and I'm afraid it's too late now. I don't see a comeback for linux. http://www.google.c…

It's unfortunate that you apparently had bad experiences with Ubuntu, but this thread is about development tools, not installing third party games from external sources. Yes, if you want to game, windows seems like a more convenient choice, nobody disputes that.

Well I have a B+ and installed Raspbian for a little home energy project that reads from my smart meter over serial and pushes the data to the cloud. The programming was easy, I spent 5x as much time trying to get things installed. Finally got Cloud9 working, never was able to get InfluxDB installed, kind of got OrientDB installed (it crashes).

I consider myself a technical person and while I think it's fun to use Linux, it's certainly not productive.

Re: Windows 10 for Raspberry Pi 2

#79

Post by benn_88 »

Note: Windows 10 on Pi 2 will be an IoT platform, not a desktop OS.

You'll develop your app in Visual Studio on a Windows PC and deploy it to the Pi.

Raspbian will continue to be the main supported OS.

- Ben from Raspberry Pi

Re: Windows 10 for Raspberry Pi 2

#80

Post by TheOtherHobbes »

bohol wrote: post #58
microtonal wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are these kids hacking on the Linux kernel or something? Of course not. They will be using some app/language running on the OS. They don't need access to the OS source to do that. I even mentioned libc. There is more to an operating system than a kernel. In fact, this was an important part of my early computer education: when I was 12 (1994) I bought a copy of Slackware Linux because it had a free compiler (even Turb…

I think you overestimate the need for access to the OS for learning things. The cracking scene, demoscene and games industry was almost exclusively built on Windows. A lot of that was just as, if not more, advanced as what a Linux programmer does. I do think the trend of iOS, Android and similar Windows environments is troubling. But if they ship Windows 10 on the RPi with something like QBasic and Visual Studio it's…

I don't think Win 10 is about teaching kids to code.

But then I don't think the Pi is really about teaching kids to code either.

The Pi Foundation has done a good job of persuading everyone otherwise, but I'm left with a nagging suspicion that a computer designed for kids from the ground up would look very different. It's just too damn complicated for most kids. The nerds get it, but expecting the average ten year old to learn Linux shell scripting or the fine points of Apache installation seems unrealistic to me.

Win 10 on the Pi is about two things. The first is about edging Linux out of the education market. Teachers will indeed prefer Win 10 to Linux, for reasons that others have mentioned - especially if it comes with a basic dev toolchain. Even if that toolchain is very easy to use.

The second is - I guess - selling Office 365 subscriptions on super-cheap hardware, and creating a whole new sub-PC market for Windows and Office.

If I'm right, it's a clever move. It will give Windows and Office access to many new markets worldwide.

Where MS hardware failed on price, the Pi version wins on price. It could be a very strong combination.

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