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Windows 10: Re-Crappifying Windows 8

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Re: Windows 10: Re-Crappifying Windows 8

#21

Post by [deleted] »

zamalek wrote: post #15
darklajid wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Windows 8 on the desktop was objectively terrible. No, it wasn't. It isn't. (I liked the improvements in 8.1 but that blanket statement from you is false)

> No, it wasn't. It isn't. Disclaimer: Emphasis on SUBJECTIVE before you indicate my opinion is wrong because you have a different opinion. That's pretty-much what subjective means. I thought HN was smarter than this. Agreed, it's subjective. This is change aversion, not loss aversion. Humans don't like change, even if it is good for them. People don't like Windows 8 UI because it was a change, and they don't like th…

[deleted]

Re: Windows 10: Re-Crappifying Windows 8

#22

Post by guard-of-terra »

Mikeb85 wrote: post #12
engendered wrote: post #4

The whole bit on loss aversion (which is a tactic to undermine people's opinions by ascribing them to unproductive emotional reactions, rather than objective evaluations that have people liking Windows 8 less than 7), and then the "I don’t really see anything positive about going back to an interaction design originally devised in 1995", undermine the piece and do make it seem more like a rant than an unbiased evalua…

> Windows 8 on the desktop was objectively terrible. Not a chance. IMO, not only was the the best Windows from a technical perspective, I quite liked the interface. I use Linux mostly for philosophical and technical reasons (much easier to program in Linux), but Windows 8 has great UI.

Wi-fi connection dialog painting over keyboard layout indicator immediately disqualifies UI from 'great'. Great UIs are not like this. Maybe it's novel, an eye candy, but not great.

Re: Windows 10: Re-Crappifying Windows 8

#23

Post by izacus »

engendered wrote: post #13
izacus wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you entirely missed the viewpoint of the author: He's trying to use Windows 10 as a tablet OS not as a desktop OS and from that perspective they threw away everything that made Windows UX on tablets good to reintroduce all the hideous cluttered desktop patterns. They just basically reinvented an ugly version of Windows 7 while throwing away what made Windows 8 a genuinely good OS on tablets - essentially inst…

I think you entirely missed the viewpoint of the author When people say that someone missed the point on HN, most of the time that means that they want you to read it the way they read it, and ignore those annoying bits that say something different. Only this author not only undermines any disagreement with Windows 8 (just loss aversion), criticizes "old" interfaces (cars had 4 wheels in the 20s....give me my new sty…

> When people say that someone missed the point on HN, most of the time that means that they want you to read it the way they read it, and ignore those annoying bits that say something different.

Hmm, you're commenting from entirely desktop machine perspective. He's talking only about tablet use perspective. I would say those are totally different viewpoints and more importantly, usage patterns?

>Only this author not only undermines any disagreement with Windows 8 (just loss aversion), criticizes "old" interfaces (cars had 4 wheels in the 20s....give me my new style 3 wheel car), they specifically hold up its advantages on the desktop.

I think saying that those interface elements are objectively bad on tablets is not far from truth, so again, see my first point.

Re: Windows 10: Re-Crappifying Windows 8

#24

Post by jqm »

guard-of-terra wrote: post #22
Mikeb85 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Windows 8 on the desktop was objectively terrible. Not a chance. IMO, not only was the the best Windows from a technical perspective, I quite liked the interface. I use Linux mostly for philosophical and technical reasons (much easier to program in Linux), but Windows 8 has great UI.

Wi-fi connection dialog painting over keyboard layout indicator immediately disqualifies UI from 'great'. Great UIs are not like this. Maybe it's novel, an eye candy, but not great.

I wouldn't even say eye candy. More like eye abuse.

Re: Windows 10: Re-Crappifying Windows 8

#25

Post by mSparks »

wfunction wrote: post #20
Mikeb85 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Windows 8 on the desktop was objectively terrible. Not a chance. IMO, not only was the the best Windows from a technical perspective, I quite liked the interface. I use Linux mostly for philosophical and technical reasons (much easier to program in Linux), but Windows 8 has great UI.

No, it was terrible, unless you installed a classic shell.

+1 on the classic shell.

Totally unusable without it.

Re: Windows 10: Re-Crappifying Windows 8

#26

Post by tluyben2 »

guard-of-terra wrote: post #16

He sounds unicorny towards Windows 8. Nobody ever uses Windows 8 in Metro mode (because no, your PC is not a tablet), and the way which you randomly fall in and out of Metro is atrocious. A lot of things they just did not bother to think about; for example, wi-fi connection dialog overlays keyboard layout indicator, ruining hope of correctly inputting password. The whole Windows 8 thing is embarrasingly make-believe.

Exactly. I like Metro & Desktop but whenever the two mix (randomly) is just mad. It's one of the most horrible experiences I currently know in computing and I have no clue why people think this is ok. Smart people at that. It feels like they never tried it themselves after delivering their product. It drives my absolutely bonkers and keeps me from using the Surface more than my macbook air & ipad air. Yes I have to carry around 2 devices but at least I won't just go and break them in 2000 pieces out of frustration. I love the hardware of the Surface3 pro, but for me, exactly that point ruins Windows 8(.1) completely. Is 10 better?

Re: Windows 10: Re-Crappifying Windows 8

#27

Post by Springtime »

Mikeb85 wrote: post #12
engendered wrote: post #4

The whole bit on loss aversion (which is a tactic to undermine people's opinions by ascribing them to unproductive emotional reactions, rather than objective evaluations that have people liking Windows 8 less than 7), and then the "I don’t really see anything positive about going back to an interaction design originally devised in 1995", undermine the piece and do make it seem more like a rant than an unbiased evalua…

> Windows 8 on the desktop was objectively terrible. Not a chance. IMO, not only was the the best Windows from a technical perspective, I quite liked the interface. I use Linux mostly for philosophical and technical reasons (much easier to program in Linux), but Windows 8 has great UI.

I could go on about the things I strongly disliked (hated, frankly) about the changes to the desktop after I first installed 8.1. An enormous amount of customization was removed from the Appearance and general UI, the ability to change File Type icons and add custom context menu commands was removed [1], the Ribbon UI is the standard File Explorer toolbar and unchangeable without additional hacks [2], and more.

They dumbed down the desktop from a customization perspective and it was most annoying, and that's before the removal of the Start menu and addition of hotcorners and other Metro/Modern features.

[1] See Types for a tool that brings this feature back: http://izt.name/apps/types/

[2] OldNewExplorer for a regular toolbar: http://www.msfn.org/board/topic/170375-oldnewexplorer-make-y...

Re: Windows 10: Re-Crappifying Windows 8

#29

Post by ZenoArrow »

alyx wrote: post #11

I don't think he realizes that he's critiquing and reviewing a preview OS.

I don't even think he's reviewing Windows 10 in its current preview form. Look at the picture he uses to show off the start menu, then compare it to the start menu in any other recent Windows 10 demonstration. Notice any differences?

Re: Windows 10: Re-Crappifying Windows 8

#30

Post by tanglesome »

This article presumes that Windows 8.x was a great tablet OS. Since Windows 8 failed on mission one: Getting people to switch from Android and iOS. Objectively some people may love it--I'm not one--but from a business viewpoint it failed on tablets and it was hated on the desktop. The only real surprise isn't that MSFT is returning to an Aero style desktop, it's that it took them so long to do so.
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