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A new wave of videogames offers lessons in powerlessness, scarcity and failure

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Re: A new wave of videogames offers lessons in powerlessness, scarcity and failure

#21

Post by mattchew »

Zikes wrote: post #3
germinalphrase wrote: post #2

Another attractive element of these games is the moral questions that sometimes arise. I know this is particularly true in "This War of Mine" (e.g. - choosing to take in a starving child that comes knocking on your door, but who also becomes a resource burden on your small tribe). Questioning and reflecting on decision making, moral choice, and consequences of (in)action are a central focus of literature study, so I…

"Moral" choices seem to be a trend lately, especially with BioWare RPGs and their ilk (Dragon Age, Mass Effect). Unfortunately, most of the consequences are fairly minor, mostly only revolving around the opinions of your in-game acquaintances. The events unfold a little differently sometimes, but the end result is almost always the same. The worst of it is that they always main-line you into one moral extreme or the…

I agree with this, mostly, but I am also optimistic about what we'll see in the future. There are lots more little studios making niche games and trying out new ideas than there were just a few years ago. I bet we'll see some RPGs with less spoonfed choices in them.

Re: A new wave of videogames offers lessons in powerlessness, scarcity and failure

#22

Post by Zikes »

mattchew wrote: post #21
Zikes wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Moral" choices seem to be a trend lately, especially with BioWare RPGs and their ilk (Dragon Age, Mass Effect). Unfortunately, most of the consequences are fairly minor, mostly only revolving around the opinions of your in-game acquaintances. The events unfold a little differently sometimes, but the end result is almost always the same. The worst of it is that they always main-line you into one moral extreme or the…

I agree with this, mostly, but I am also optimistic about what we'll see in the future. There are lots more little studios making niche games and trying out new ideas than there were just a few years ago. I bet we'll see some RPGs with less spoonfed choices in them.

I completely agree. The only thing holding any of those games back was the lack of desire, funding, or resources to make a truly non-convergent branching narrative.

Re: A new wave of videogames offers lessons in powerlessness, scarcity and failure

#23

Post by bradbeattie »

patio11 wrote: post #11
germinalphrase wrote: post #2

Another attractive element of these games is the moral questions that sometimes arise. I know this is particularly true in "This War of Mine" (e.g. - choosing to take in a starving child that comes knocking on your door, but who also becomes a resource burden on your small tribe). Questioning and reflecting on decision making, moral choice, and consequences of (in)action are a central focus of literature study, so I…

This War of Mine is the only time I've ever felt genuinely troubled by a moral choice in a videogame, and it was for an unscripted reason. Spoiler in ROT13: Oehab gur pbbx jnf bar bs zl cnegl zrzoref. Ur jnf fubg va n enaqbz envq frireny qnlf ntb, naq jr'er bhg bs zrqvpvar naq onaqntrf. Vg vf irel pyrne gung Oehab jvyy qvr vs ur qbrf abg trg onaqntrq, cebonoyl jvguva 2 qnlf, juvpu zrnaf jr unir rknpgyl 1 avtug gb fpn…

I just wish the game didn't make it glaringly obvious whom you can kill without taking a morale hit. Overhearing some folks talk about how happy they are to have killed the drivers of a civilian supply truck was just a glaring "You can kill these people and not feel remorse" flag.

I would have loved it all the more if all the NPCs were shades of grey instead of more obvious blacks and whites.

Re: A new wave of videogames offers lessons in powerlessness, scarcity and failure

#24

Post by mkramlich »

A long time ago (though admittedly in this galaxy) I made a computer game with moral choices a key element in the gameplay. I named it Legacy. It was a Java GUI app. Though a small game in terms of feature set and code size I always remember noticing how it was one of the more fun (to me) games I ever made. Had to do with mating, family and inheritances. It ended up influencing my more recent designs as well.

Re: A new wave of videogames offers lessons in powerlessness, scarcity and failure

#25

Post by Jach »

pavel_lishin wrote: post #12
Zikes wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To the opposite extreme, there's also The Stanley Parable. On the surface it's a humorous narrative seemingly about being a cubicle drone, but it's ultimately about the futility of choice.

One could argue that Bioshock Infinite is about the same thing.

The original BioShock was better in going meta on the futility of choice in video games as a medium. You're going to end up doing what the game designer wants you to do. This presumes a game designer has a vision of some sort, of course, but games that don't are either bad or seen as tech demos.

Re: A new wave of videogames offers lessons in powerlessness, scarcity and failure

#27

Post by brudgers »

This reminded me of Avalon Hill's Outdoor Survival. It was recommended for use as an outdoor "dungeon" in the old boxed D & D. Adventuring outdoors was kinda dull for us as kids, compared to indoor slaughter but we did play the actual board game fairly often.

Dying of thirst was not uncommon.

Re: A new wave of videogames offers lessons in powerlessness, scarcity and failure

#28

Post by angersock »

Zikes wrote: post #3
germinalphrase wrote: post #2

Another attractive element of these games is the moral questions that sometimes arise. I know this is particularly true in "This War of Mine" (e.g. - choosing to take in a starving child that comes knocking on your door, but who also becomes a resource burden on your small tribe). Questioning and reflecting on decision making, moral choice, and consequences of (in)action are a central focus of literature study, so I…

"Moral" choices seem to be a trend lately, especially with BioWare RPGs and their ilk (Dragon Age, Mass Effect). Unfortunately, most of the consequences are fairly minor, mostly only revolving around the opinions of your in-game acquaintances. The events unfold a little differently sometimes, but the end result is almost always the same. The worst of it is that they always main-line you into one moral extreme or the…

One of the nice-but-sometimes-annoying things about the Stalker series was that the world was very grey, and lots of choices weren't even obviously choices at the time.

In Call of Pripyat, for example, how you treat a few characters in chance encounters can drastically change the late-game, and completely change the endings. Also, the choices aren't usually "Eat baby or save world", they're more "Do you help this guy, or this guy? We have only vaguely hinted what they're up to, so choose carefully."

Fallout 2 and Arcanum had some really well-done morality gameplay as well.

Re: A new wave of videogames offers lessons in powerlessness, scarcity and failure

#29

Post by IgorPartola »

Zikes wrote: post #3
germinalphrase wrote: post #2

Another attractive element of these games is the moral questions that sometimes arise. I know this is particularly true in "This War of Mine" (e.g. - choosing to take in a starving child that comes knocking on your door, but who also becomes a resource burden on your small tribe). Questioning and reflecting on decision making, moral choice, and consequences of (in)action are a central focus of literature study, so I…

"Moral" choices seem to be a trend lately, especially with BioWare RPGs and their ilk (Dragon Age, Mass Effect). Unfortunately, most of the consequences are fairly minor, mostly only revolving around the opinions of your in-game acquaintances. The events unfold a little differently sometimes, but the end result is almost always the same. The worst of it is that they always main-line you into one moral extreme or the…

A Dark Room is actually a counter example of this. It more or less mainlines you, but makes a point of it. You cannot reverse it. Yet, I was glad to find out that I was not the only one to try.

Re: A new wave of videogames offers lessons in powerlessness, scarcity and failure

#30

Post by Retra »

Terr_ wrote: post #26

> These games subvert the usual arc of heroic triumph by providing a basis for interesting, beautiful defeat. I was half-expecting a nod to Dwarf Fortress.

Embark. Mass confusion. Eaten by gators.

There's nothing anybody could have done... Poor dwarves.

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