Meant to Keep Mosquitos Out, Nets Are Used to Haul Fish In • Hacker News Board

Re: Meant to Keep Mosquitos Out, Nets Are Used to Haul Fish In

#71

Post by sangnoir » Sun, Jan 25, 2015, 12:35 AM UTC

Havoc wrote: post #62

hristov wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not true and this type of fatalism is just not warranted. Malaria deaths have actually been decreasing the last 20 years or so. And that is impressive because population has been increasing. http://www.who.int/gho/malaria/epidemic/deaths/en/ The ecology of a country is a very complex system and becomes even more complex if you throw humans into it. So any significant aid is bound to have unintended side effec…

>This is not true and this type of fatalism is just not warranted. No? I bet I've spent more years in Africa than you have (my entire life). Also spent thousands of nights under mosquito nets. Ever seen someone fish with a mosquito net? I have. "ecology of a country"? Spare me the armchair commander BS. "Western" people mostly miss the plot. Eg vaccination. Massive freaking supply chain operation to get the stuff to…

>No? I bet I've spent more years in Africa than you have This sound like an appeal to non-authority. How does seeing someone fishing with a mosquito net discount the fact that malaria deaths have been decreasing for 20 years? (a point you chose to ignore, by the way).

Africa is not a monolith: it's 54-countries strong with a multitude of cultures (I'd bet you'd be hard-pressed to find a "local witch doctor" in Tunis).

You are entitled to your opinion, just because you live there doesn't automatically make you an expert. I too have spent my entire life in (southern) Africa.

Re: Meant to Keep Mosquitos Out, Nets Are Used to Haul Fish In

#72

Post by sangnoir » Sun, Jan 25, 2015, 12:40 AM UTC

intopieces wrote: post #52

"The leading mosquito net manufacturers insist that their products are not dangerous. Still, many nets are labeled: 'Do not wash in a lake or a river.'" I'm interested to know what language this label was written in. Bemba? Nyanja? Moreover, where did the manufacturers intend for Zambians to wash the nets?

Generally nets are not supposed to be washed with untreated water (doing so will wash away the infused chemicals). If you are going to wash the net, you are supposed to wash it in a bucket or any small container with treated water to maintain potency.

Re: Meant to Keep Mosquitos Out, Nets Are Used to Haul Fish In

#73

Post by schiffern » Sun, Jan 25, 2015, 12:47 AM UTC

vinceguidry wrote: post #68

schiffern wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Your "sustainable food system" is something we can't give to people. No argument there. They need their own sustainable food system. We all do, if humanity is to continue (which is all "sustainable" means — able to continue). How could humanity possibly continue without a sustainable food system? Am I missing something? This seems pretty uncontroversial.

I'm having trouble understanding what you're hoping to bring to the conversation. The basic problem is this. There are a great deal of resources that can be brought to bear on solving problems in the world. There are lots of philanthropists in the world, with lots of money. The problem is picking the right problem. There are big problems, like hunger. No matter how many resources you have, you're never going to make…

Sorry if I was unclear. I'm not blaming the billionaires or the users of the nets.

You seem to be viewing the less-industrialized world as a philanthropic playground for the rich. Naomi Klein's comments about Richard Branson's climate prize seem especially pertinent here. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jdaxehd0cF0#t=2m44s

Re: Meant to Keep Mosquitos Out, Nets Are Used to Haul Fish In

#74

Post by indrax » Sun, Jan 25, 2015, 3:14 AM UTC

ipsin wrote: post #7

amelius wrote: post #2

Solution: besides giving out mosquito nets, also give out fishing nets...

The article makes it pretty clear that overfishing is likely to wipe out local fish populations.

This reminds me of a recent article about an abandoned flooded mall. Fish were added to control the mosquito population.

So what happens to the mosquitoes when the fish population drops?

Re: Meant to Keep Mosquitos Out, Nets Are Used to Haul Fish In

#75

Post by vinceguidry » Sun, Jan 25, 2015, 4:49 AM UTC

schiffern wrote: post #73

vinceguidry wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm having trouble understanding what you're hoping to bring to the conversation. The basic problem is this. There are a great deal of resources that can be brought to bear on solving problems in the world. There are lots of philanthropists in the world, with lots of money. The problem is picking the right problem. There are big problems, like hunger. No matter how many resources you have, you're never going to make…

Sorry if I was unclear. I'm not blaming the billionaires or the users of the nets. You seem to be viewing the less-industrialized world as a philanthropic playground for the rich. Naomi Klein's comments about Richard Branson's climate prize seem especially pertinent here. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jdaxehd0cF0#t=2m44s

> viewing the less-industrialized world as a philanthropic playground for the rich

So, you have nothing to bring to the discussion other than some silly moralizing.

If Richard Branson could fix global warming while keeping a silly grin on his face, tossing around a beach ball, would you pat him on the back like he's expecting you to do and tell him how great he is, or would you rather he just sit down and shut his stupid face because obviously global warming won't respond to such a simplistic approach? Even if it does?

Re: Meant to Keep Mosquitos Out, Nets Are Used to Haul Fish In

#76

Post by schiffern » Sun, Jan 25, 2015, 6:17 AM UTC

vinceguidry wrote: post #75

schiffern wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry if I was unclear. I'm not blaming the billionaires or the users of the nets. You seem to be viewing the less-industrialized world as a philanthropic playground for the rich. Naomi Klein's comments about Richard Branson's climate prize seem especially pertinent here. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jdaxehd0cF0#t=2m44s

> viewing the less-industrialized world as a philanthropic playground for the rich So, you have nothing to bring to the discussion other than some silly moralizing. If Richard Branson could fix global warming while keeping a silly grin on his face, tossing around a beach ball, would you pat him on the back like he's expecting you to do and tell him how great he is, or would you rather he just sit down and shut his st…

Morality does play a part here, but what you took for "moralizing" is me pointing out how the framing of the question constrains the answer. Specifically this passage:

>>>The basic problem is this. There are a great deal of resources that can be brought to bear on solving problems in the world. There are lots of philanthropists in the world, with lots of money.

Yes, those things are true. There are also people over there, and their participation matters at least as much as (and I would argue much more than) that of the wealthy elite.

In the case of the "carbon-sucking gizmo", the cure is worse than the disease. Even Branson-level cash can't change thermodynamics and evolution.

The Virgin Challenge finalists are conspicuously absent in their energy and land use analyses. I expect they suffer from the same problems as previous CCS "solutions" — energetically they can't compete with simply shutting down a coal plant, and in land use they can't compete with reseeding farmland to forest. So when you understand why those simpler methods aren't done, you'll understand the finalist's actual scaling problem.

It all washes out in the lifecycle analysis. Anything else is feel-good.

Re: Meant to Keep Mosquitos Out, Nets Are Used to Haul Fish In

#77

Post by Mikeb85 » Sun, Jan 25, 2015, 10:06 PM UTC

sangnoir wrote: post #69

Mikeb85 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, my brother in law got Malaria in another tropical country, like a bad flu, recovered pretty quick. Certainly not as scary as people make it out to be (unless you're already in bad shape). One also has to remember the epidemic flu viruses that killed millions in the west in past centuries, yet now we barely care enough to get flu shots.

I think medical care is the missing part of the equation in your anecdote (and gp's). If you get malaria and medical attention, you'll have a lousy time, but probably be fine. However, for people with limited access to medical care (too remote or too impoverished), preventing Malaria altogether is the best bet, hence mosquito nets.

It was in a 3rd world country with 3rd world access to medical care (and he lives there)...

Anyhow, health and other factors matter more than mosquito nets... Malaria isn't too different than the flu, and the flu has killed millions in the past.

Re: Meant to Keep Mosquitos Out, Nets Are Used to Haul Fish In

#78

Post by Zancarius » Thu, Jan 29, 2015, 4:34 AM UTC

pvaldes wrote: post #70

Zancarius wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The concern here isn't so much about fishing (though it may be a problem) as much as it is what the nets are treated with, which might affect fish populations, other species, and the very humans they're intended to protect. The article explicitly states that permethrin is highly toxic to cold-blooded animals, fish in particular, and could over-stress local populations. If the fish they don't catch die from exposure t…

When people don't fall sick again and again in his beds by malaria, they can work more days and have more resources to spend in the food market. This should be understood as an economy improvement for the family. Same as to have a roof. Overfishing and the extinction of both fishes and the professional fishers is a big problem for all the community.

Oh, I agree. I just think the problem in this case is that it's difficult for us (being well fed and well educated) to fully appreciate the immediacy of starvation.