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Meant to Keep Mosquitos Out, Nets Are Used to Haul Fish In

nytimes.com

61–70 of 78 posts

Re: Meant to Keep Mosquitos Out, Nets Are Used to Haul Fish In

#61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That turns out to be surprisingly hard to do as well. You can't just ship free food in, strongmen will capture it and put it to their own use. Nets, being less fungible in their value, are ultimately less likely to be misused.

>You can't just ship free food in Agreed, that doesn't qualify as a sustainable food system.

We need easy solutions because hard solutions won't scale. We can't create modern economies in places that don't have the infrastructure. We tried doing that once, it's called colonialism and it generally sucked. Your "sustainable food system" is something we can't give to people.

Re: Meant to Keep Mosquitos Out, Nets Are Used to Haul Fish In

#62
post #20
post #3

Welcome to Africa - one step forward two steps back.

This is not true and this type of fatalism is just not warranted. Malaria deaths have actually been decreasing the last 20 years or so. And that is impressive because population has been increasing. http://www.who.int/gho/malaria/epidemic/deaths/en/ The ecology of a country is a very complex system and becomes even more complex if you throw humans into it. So any significant aid is bound to have unintended side effec…

>This is not true and this type of fatalism is just not warranted.

No? I bet I've spent more years in Africa than you have (my entire life). Also spent thousands of nights under mosquito nets. Ever seen someone fish with a mosquito net? I have.

"ecology of a country"? Spare me the armchair commander BS.

"Western" people mostly miss the plot. Eg vaccination. Massive freaking supply chain operation to get the stuff to Africa (great success) ... Mobile LPG powered refrigeration etc. High Five. Local witchdoctor says these things are evil - entire shipping of mission critical vaccines expire on site. (true story)

One step forward two steps back. ..

Re: Meant to Keep Mosquitos Out, Nets Are Used to Haul Fish In

#63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>You can't just ship free food in Agreed, that doesn't qualify as a sustainable food system.

We need easy solutions because hard solutions won't scale. We can't create modern economies in places that don't have the infrastructure. We tried doing that once, it's called colonialism and it generally sucked. Your "sustainable food system" is something we can't give to people.

>Your "sustainable food system" is something we can't give to people.

No argument there. They need their own sustainable food system.

We all do, if humanity is to continue (which is all "sustainable" means — able to continue).

How could humanity possibly continue without a sustainable food system? Am I missing something? This seems pretty uncontroversial.

Re: Meant to Keep Mosquitos Out, Nets Are Used to Haul Fish In

#64

I've heard public health people talk about the problem of giving away nets for free before, and that charging some amount of money seems to improve usage. It may be more than just the decision between starving and malaria, but also some psychology involved with getting free things.

My brother runs a medical mission in Guatemala and this is precisely his experience - charging a small amount leads to better usage.

Re: Meant to Keep Mosquitos Out, Nets Are Used to Haul Fish In

#65
post #5
post #3

Welcome to Africa - one step forward two steps back.

Welcome to the wealthy nation's interactions with Africa. To think "we" can tell people what problem they should solve (Malaria) when not even their food supply is secured, that's just hubris. Knowing Maslow's hierarchy of needs, it's Physiological needs (food) vs Safety needs (Malaria protection). And the former are more basic, so expecting anything else shows little foresight (easy to say in hindsight, I know).

>To think "we" can tell people what problem

As per my comment on another post I do not fall into your idea of "we". I've spent all of my life in Africa. Much of it under mosquito nets.

Much like other posters here you're approaching this from an academic point of view (maslow etc). The truth is very different. Eg did you know that DDT is still (officially) being used to combat malaria? As in they spray that stuff on houses (it's compulsory for some areas). Enjoy the birthdefects. Another poster here reckoned my pessimism is unwarranted. What does it take for it to be warranted?

Africa... One step forward two steps back.

Re: Meant to Keep Mosquitos Out, Nets Are Used to Haul Fish In

#66
post #4
post #2

Solution: besides giving out mosquito nets, also give out fishing nets...

That's a non solution. Giving them nets and fishing nets will only make then sell the fishing nets and using the mosquito nets for their fishing needs. One solution is to look for another solution. Like a genetically modified mosquito that is inhospitable to malaria and outcompetes regular mosquito. Other is to try stabilizing the region.

Other could be to create more faible mosquito nets that break easily under the forces used to fish, thus being useless as fishnets.

Re: Meant to Keep Mosquitos Out, Nets Are Used to Haul Fish In

#67
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article makes it pretty clear that overfishing is likely to wipe out local fish populations.

As opposed to entire marine fisheries destroyed by industrialized fishing that puts tins of tuna on grocery shelves.

sadly, a very good point.

Re: Meant to Keep Mosquitos Out, Nets Are Used to Haul Fish In

#68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We need easy solutions because hard solutions won't scale. We can't create modern economies in places that don't have the infrastructure. We tried doing that once, it's called colonialism and it generally sucked. Your "sustainable food system" is something we can't give to people.

>Your "sustainable food system" is something we can't give to people. No argument there. They need their own sustainable food system. We all do, if humanity is to continue (which is all "sustainable" means — able to continue). How could humanity possibly continue without a sustainable food system? Am I missing something? This seems pretty uncontroversial.

I'm having trouble understanding what you're hoping to bring to the conversation. The basic problem is this. There are a great deal of resources that can be brought to bear on solving problems in the world. There are lots of philanthropists in the world, with lots of money.

The problem is picking the right problem. There are big problems, like hunger. No matter how many resources you have, you're never going to make a dent in world hunger.

There are smaller problems, like dam building. One could, conceivably, build all the dams in the world that need to be built. But just like the big problems, there's never going to be any shortage of these smaller problems to solve, and each effort needs to be managed and championed.

So you can't just solve all of them. You have to pick one at a time and throw everything you have at it. The problem is not resources, but ideas. We need really good ideas for how best to go about making the world a better place. A good idea needs to be simple, because it has to be scaled.

HN is a forum where one good idea could inspire someone to make a Kickstarter campaign, that could attract the attention of someone like Bill Gates, and could improve the lives of potentially millions of people. I wish more people took that seriously.

Malaria nets have their problems. But they've also helped eradicate malaria in many places. People look at stories like this and they think, "aww that was a stupid idea anyway! Silly billionaires." It's not a stupid idea. It's a great one that we need more of.

Re: Meant to Keep Mosquitos Out, Nets Are Used to Haul Fish In

#69
post #35
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who is an American-born-Nigerian and my wife, born and raised in Nigeria, I can confirm this. My wife got malaria all the time in Nigeria, it was like a really bad cold or a flu in America. You get over it and move on. Only if your immune system is already compromised in some other way like old age or whatever malaria isn't really that big a deal among those who were strong and healthy before getting it. I…

Yeah, my brother in law got Malaria in another tropical country, like a bad flu, recovered pretty quick. Certainly not as scary as people make it out to be (unless you're already in bad shape). One also has to remember the epidemic flu viruses that killed millions in the west in past centuries, yet now we barely care enough to get flu shots.

I think medical care is the missing part of the equation in your anecdote (and gp's). If you get malaria and medical attention, you'll have a lousy time, but probably be fine.

However, for people with limited access to medical care (too remote or too impoverished), preventing Malaria altogether is the best bet, hence mosquito nets.

Re: Meant to Keep Mosquitos Out, Nets Are Used to Haul Fish In

#70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As opposed to entire marine fisheries destroyed by industrialized fishing that puts tins of tuna on grocery shelves.

The concern here isn't so much about fishing (though it may be a problem) as much as it is what the nets are treated with, which might affect fish populations, other species, and the very humans they're intended to protect. The article explicitly states that permethrin is highly toxic to cold-blooded animals, fish in particular, and could over-stress local populations. If the fish they don't catch die from exposure t…

When people don't fall sick again and again in his beds by malaria, they can work more days and have more resources to spend in the food market. This should be understood as an economy improvement for the family. Same as to have a roof.

Overfishing and the extinction of both fishes and the professional fishers is a big problem for all the community.

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