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To Protect His Son, a Father Asks School to Bar Unvaccinated Children

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31–40 of 134 posts

Re: To Protect His Son, a Father Asks School to Bar Unvaccinated Children

#31
post #9

New York has set such a policy in place and it's been upheld through multiple trials and appeals. Perhaps once it's settled in the higher courts it will become standard policy in a lot of other places. Once can hope. http://jurist.org/paperchase/2015/01/federal-appeals-court-u...

It seems to me like New York's current law is the same as California. From the article you linked: The state law provides two exemptions from the mandate, ... the second for "children whose parent, parents, or guardian hold genuine and sincere religious beliefs which are contrary to the practices herein required. The NPR article seems to discuss a father specifically attacking the personal belief exemption in Califor…

New York only always exemptions for sincere religious beliefs, California allows exemptions for any beliefs.

Before the obvious objection, there are plenty of examples of people who try to create a special purpose religion to get around some or other rule, and only a few cases where it has actually worked.

Also as the top level poster alludes to the second circuit recently ruled that the religious exemption is not constitutionally required. Phillips v City of New York (http://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-2nd-circuit/1688862.html).

Re: To Protect His Son, a Father Asks School to Bar Unvaccinated Children

#32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If your aim is to protect children by increasing the numbers of vaccinated children it's important not to use mockery or ridicule. Those are the wrong tools. When education fails, when facts fail, when logic and reason fail, you're left with mockery and/or ridicule.

I understand the urge, believe me. But now I'm trying to be a less sarcastic person, because the way I see it, mockery / ridicule is tantamount to giving up. Totally cool with it. It's fun, and gives you a smug feeling that is unfortunately also fun. But I don't let myself think I'm doing anything other than throwing in the towel in trying to help this other inhabitant of our rock. Once I frame it that way to myself,…

[deleted]

Re: To Protect His Son, a Father Asks School to Bar Unvaccinated Children

#34
post #21
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your decisions on circumcision and home birth do not affect my infant child's ability to live. Your decision on vaccination does.

[deleted]

The line regarding circumcision should be drawn at "genital mutilation".

Re: To Protect His Son, a Father Asks School to Bar Unvaccinated Children

#35
post #27

If it was my son and he couldn't be vaccinated for a few months I'd simply hold him out of school until the vaccinations could be administered. I feel for the child and his family, it's a horrible thing that happened to them, but talk about solving a simple problem with an activist response. This is how we end up with a ridiculous number of laws and regulations. If we should legislate that every kid in a public schoo…

Holding a kid out of school can be a pretty serious hardship for a family, and a setback for the kid's education. At the very least, the school should provide the kid with alternative care.

Re: To Protect His Son, a Father Asks School to Bar Unvaccinated Children

#36
post #27

If it was my son and he couldn't be vaccinated for a few months I'd simply hold him out of school until the vaccinations could be administered. I feel for the child and his family, it's a horrible thing that happened to them, but talk about solving a simple problem with an activist response. This is how we end up with a ridiculous number of laws and regulations. If we should legislate that every kid in a public schoo…

And furthermore, if the concern is that unvaccinated children are putting others at risk and should be excluded from school, then wouldn't it stand to reason that this child (who is also unvaccinated) is also putting others at risk (albeit the motivation for not vaccinating is different)?

Re: To Protect His Son, a Father Asks School to Bar Unvaccinated Children

#37
post #19

Do any of you religiously stay up to date on your boosters to stay fully immune to these diseases? Do you advocate shutting down the borders, prosecuting people to the fullest extent of the law that are found illegally in this country, and overall taking every effort to prevent illegal immigrants into the country where we can't control their movements amongst the population and have no history of their medical condit…

There's a big difference between 9% and 1%.

A difference called "life and death".

Re: To Protect His Son, a Father Asks School to Bar Unvaccinated Children

#38
post #27

If it was my son and he couldn't be vaccinated for a few months I'd simply hold him out of school until the vaccinations could be administered. I feel for the child and his family, it's a horrible thing that happened to them, but talk about solving a simple problem with an activist response. This is how we end up with a ridiculous number of laws and regulations. If we should legislate that every kid in a public schoo…

The thing that bothers me isn't the need to vaccinate, but the fact that the list of vaccinations continues to get longer. Well, it isn't the length of the list; it's simply that I'm not worried about all of the diseases on the list.

My main disagreement is chicken pox. Yes, I understand that there are serious chicken pox cases, but they're incredibly rare. Whoever made the decision to include the chicken pox vaccine on the list weighed a very rare risk for unvaccinated children against even smaller risks for vaccinated children, and decided to require the vaccine. That's a rational decision, but I would prefer if I were allowed to weigh benefits and risks myself.

Re: To Protect His Son, a Father Asks School to Bar Unvaccinated Children

#39

In the name of science and our wellbeing, please direct anyone you know who has good faith concerns to the NOVA episode Calling The Shots: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xm9mZ9j-oQ It's very accessible, and doesn't simply dismiss those who are anti-vaccine. Of course as with many NOVA episodes this one is fascinating regardless of your viewpoint.

It seems odd to use polio as the example of a vaccine success story, while leaving out the recent resurgence of polio that's been caused by Obama using vaccines as part of his secret assassination program.

Also not mentioned, the fact that government vaccination programs in Africa are thought to be one of the key elements behind HIV becoming a global epidemic. Or the fact that vaccine makers are frequently indemnified from safety lawsuits.

I'm not saying that vaccines are a net negative, but the idea that all the problems with vaccines are somehow magically explained away by 'science' seems disingenuous. This program does mention that vaccines aren't perfect, merely better than the alternative, and yet doesn't even get into any of the real problems.

edit: Even strictly in terms of the science, this doesn't address any of the major open questions. E.g. all of the research I've seen suggests that while getting a flu vaccine makes you less likely to die in the current year, it actually reduces your longterm immunity. (Since flu vaccines only give immunity for a few months, whereas getting the actual flu can confer some resistance for decades.) So what does the risk/benefit look like over the course of a lifetime? Obviously if you're 90 then longterm resistance is irrelevant, but what if you're, say, 20 and in good health?

Re: To Protect His Son, a Father Asks School to Bar Unvaccinated Children

#40
post #19

Do any of you religiously stay up to date on your boosters to stay fully immune to these diseases? Do you advocate shutting down the borders, prosecuting people to the fullest extent of the law that are found illegally in this country, and overall taking every effort to prevent illegal immigrants into the country where we can't control their movements amongst the population and have no history of their medical condit…

illegal immigration is... well... illegal

and legal immigration has vaccination requirements

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