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I Was Arrested for Learning a Foreign Language. Today, I Have Some Closure

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Re: I Was Arrested for Learning a Foreign Language. Today, I Have Some Closure

#221

Post by DanBC »

jacquesm wrote: post #219
hueving wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well children certainly aren't independent in the US. They can't choose to smoke and drink. They also can't choose to stop attending school without pretty harsh punishments. They are effectively prisoners of society until they turn 18 (even though they still can't drink).

And they have to eat their vegetables too! Won't someone think of those poor oppressed and imprisoned children.

I don't normally comment on downvotes but your tone is not needed.

Hueving makes a reasonable point in counter to several things you said. Your snark is sub-optimal.

Re: I Was Arrested for Learning a Foreign Language. Today, I Have Some Closure

#222

Post by mod »

msandford wrote: post #209
DanBC wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whenever I've been through TSA screening I empty my pockets to a tray. This report says "I took the set of flashcards from my pocket and handed them to the officers."

> This report says "I took the set of flashcards from my pocket and handed them to the officers." That was done in response to "empty your pockets", a command from a TSA agent. Paper doesn't trigger metal detectors so there's no real need to put it all into the tray the first time.

The detectors detect more than metal.

Perhaps you missed the great scandal of the 'body scanners.'

Re: I Was Arrested for Learning a Foreign Language. Today, I Have Some Closure

#223

Post by jacquesm »

DanBC wrote: post #221
jacquesm wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And they have to eat their vegetables too! Won't someone think of those poor oppressed and imprisoned children.

I don't normally comment on downvotes but your tone is not needed. Hueving makes a reasonable point in counter to several things you said. Your snark is sub-optimal.

Calling children 'prisoners of society' is ridiculous.

Re: I Was Arrested for Learning a Foreign Language. Today, I Have Some Closure

#224

Post by mod »

zaroth wrote: post #57
sebular wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, what a disappointing response. Talking about bombs at the airport is not the same as having literature in your carry-on with the word "bomb" on it. The last novel I brought on a flight talked extensively about bombs, should I have tossed it in the garbage before going through security? When people like you rationalize every individual curtailment on civil liberties without considering the bigger implications and…

Not in carry-on. Passed a stack of cards directly to an agent. Almost comically stupid. TSA's job is to alert on oddities. A stack of cards with Arabic on one side and English words like "bomb" and "terrorist"... This takes the cake. TSA alerts as they should, they are not qualified to do any more. The police should have called this guy an idiot and told him to get lost but it doesn't surprise me that it was beyond t…

You say "almost comically stupid," I say more like "almost wanting this result."

The whole thread has been a debate, the two sides seemingly "this shouldn't happen!" vs "this guy could have trivially avoided this result!"

Both are correct. Quite frankly I think he wanted to fight this fight.

Re: I Was Arrested for Learning a Foreign Language. Today, I Have Some Closure

#225

Post by kbart »

ecdavis wrote: post #95
yabatopia wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Do you know who did 9/11? Osama Bin Laden! And did you know that Osama Bin Laden had shoes? So you see why your shoes are suspicious and we have to arrest you?"

"It is cheap, basic and widely available around the world. Yet the Casio F-91W digital watch was declared to be "the sign of al-Qaida" and a contributing factor to continued detention of prisoners by the analysts stationed at Guantánamo Bay. Briefing documents used to train staff in assessing the threat level of new detainees advise that possession of the F-91W – available online for as little as £4 – suggests the we…

Heh, I had the same watch as a child and many of my friends did too. I don't think it's a sign of al-Qaida or any other particular group. These watches just were (probably still are) very popular in developing nations because they are cheap and trustworthy (unlike Chinese counterparts of the same price range).

Re: I Was Arrested for Learning a Foreign Language. Today, I Have Some Closure

#226

Post by downandout »

s_q_b wrote: post #216
downandout wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Legally, he was detained. He wasn't arrested. Those are two very different things.

No, legally, they are not. Any time you are in the presence of a law enforcement official and you are not free to leave, your person has been seized for purposes of the Fourth Amendment. From a Constitutional viewpoint, both arrest and "detainment" are a seizure of the person, and legally indistinguishable from an individual rights standpoint. Second, how are the TSA agents stopping people from leaving until local PD…

There are stark legal differences between arrest and detention. TSA agents are authorized to detain, but not arrest, suspects. The bar for detention is lower, and detention may be performed by people other than sworn peace officers. Even private security officers - such as those at casinos in Nevada - are legally permitted to detain people for the purpose of notifying the police if they believe a felony has occurred on the property. NRS 171.1235

By contrast, an arrest may only be performed by a peace officer with probable cause to believe a crime has occurred. Detained suspects do not have to have their rights read to them, whereas they must be read to arrested individuals. Detained suspects are either arrested or released usually within hours, as was the case here.

Detention and arrest are vastly different things, both legally and practically, that are used for different purposes. The system worked here: he walked into an airport displaying many red flags. He was detained for a few hours, determined not to be a threat, and was released.

Re: I Was Arrested for Learning a Foreign Language. Today, I Have Some Closure

#227

Post by mikeash »

DanBC wrote: post #220
mod wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That link is not about a person with an Arabic t-shirt, nor is it about the U.S. It's my presumption they don't have a "TSA," at least by that name, in the UK.

It's a pretty well known case and easy enough to find. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/5297822.stm

Wow, I clearly need to pay more attention to what comes out of my pasteboard. Thanks for posting a proper link.

Re: I Was Arrested for Learning a Foreign Language. Today, I Have Some Closure

#228

Post by mikeash »

downandout wrote: post #226
s_q_b wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, legally, they are not. Any time you are in the presence of a law enforcement official and you are not free to leave, your person has been seized for purposes of the Fourth Amendment. From a Constitutional viewpoint, both arrest and "detainment" are a seizure of the person, and legally indistinguishable from an individual rights standpoint. Second, how are the TSA agents stopping people from leaving until local PD…

There are stark legal differences between arrest and detention. TSA agents are authorized to detain, but not arrest, suspects. The bar for detention is lower, and detention may be performed by people other than sworn peace officers. Even private security officers - such as those at casinos in Nevada - are legally permitted to detain people for the purpose of notifying the police if they believe a felony has occurred…

What were the many red flags? It looks to me like there was at most one: the flash cards. (And IMO zero, because the idea that having "bomb" written on a piece of paper makes someone suspicious is ludicrous.)

Re: I Was Arrested for Learning a Foreign Language. Today, I Have Some Closure

#229

Post by thanksgiving »

javert wrote: post #109
thanksgiving wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As someone said, accused parents in such cases have less rights than Breivik. Hang on a minute. Here in the US, my tax dollars support your children. WIC and Food Stamps and school lunch programs which come from my tax dollars ensure your infants and children do not starve in case something happens to you or your income. As a parent, you get to claim tax deductions which means more money out of my pocket to cover f…

Wow, this is incredibly disgusting. To claim that children belong to the community is full-blown communalism, and the end of individual rights. This is one fine distinction away from claiming that we are all property of the State. Parents have an obligation to protect their children, and you are attacking that. Taxation is not an "investment" and does not confer rights. It is non-contractual; it is merely force; it i…

I absolutely don't mind safety nets. I don't want people to starve and die. What I detest are tax breaks for having kids or deductions. It is disgusting.

Re: I Was Arrested for Learning a Foreign Language. Today, I Have Some Closure

#230

Post by existencebox »

pluma wrote: post #62
existencebox wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Growing up in Philly, that was not the perception of the kids who got thrown into dumpsters during a police raid on a prom. This is anecdotal, but in one of the hotbeds of police/citizen conflict, I don't think it serves a purpose to try and pull the "there are always good ones" card. Yes, there are, but until the systemic problems are dealt with they aren't the ones having an impact.

There were good Wehrmacht soldiers, too. Can't blame Allied soldiers for shooting at them, though. I'm saying that as a German, mind you.

This is absolutely a complete and utter tangent but you touched on something I've really been wondering about: Watching a lot of ken burns lately, heard him tell quite a few stories of German regular army officers going out of their way to protect enemy combatants/POWs from being killed/taken to death camps to the extent that there seemed to be quite the little power struggle from among the nazi ranks; naturally (but unfortunately) since it was an American documentary it wasn't the primary focus, but I'd love to hear of any german made documentaries that do justice to the "people" side of things from the non-american point of view. (maybe this is assumptive and rude but I figured a German on HN would be the best person to ask; hope it wasn't too out of place!)
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