I Was Arrested for Learning a Foreign Language. Today, I Have Some Closure • Hacker News Board

Re: I Was Arrested for Learning a Foreign Language. Today, I Have Some Closure

#121

Post by anigbrowl » Sun, Jan 25, 2015, 8:08 PM UTC

yourad_io wrote: post #112

zaroth wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Contextually relevant!" That's a good one. :-) I took several years of [French] foreign language, never did I ever learn those vocab words. What a world we live in. "Ou est les toilettes?" "Un pain au chocolat et un cafe s'il vous plait." ... "Est-ce une bombe dans votre sac à dos?" It's a fantastic Onion-worthy title, but IMO Nick was inconvenienced for his lack of critical thinking skills on this one. By compariso…

> "Contextually relevant!" That's a good one. :-) It's true on a global scale, not just in the Arabic context. As you immerse yourself in a language, you're encouraged to follow newspapers/articles/tv/shows/etc. It is entirely unreasonable to censor your own learning process. Take this unfortunately common headline: Death toll of Yemen anti-Houthi bomb blast rises to 49.[1] Now censor your knowledge: [? ?] of Yemen a…

You're not censoring your learning process by putting flash cards in your checked baggage and taking a book in your carry-on.

Re: I Was Arrested for Learning a Foreign Language. Today, I Have Some Closure

#122

Post by lotsofmangos » Sun, Jan 25, 2015, 8:09 PM UTC

thanksgiving wrote: post #101

jkot wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Norway has way too many similar cases, for such small country of only 5 million people. Barnevernet also puts artificial obstructions for adoption by biological relatives, such as grandparents. As someone said, accused parents in such cases have less rights than Breivik.

> As someone said, accused parents in such cases have less rights than Breivik. Hang on a minute. Here in the US, my tax dollars support your children. WIC and Food Stamps and school lunch programs which come from my tax dollars ensure your infants and children do not starve in case something happens to you or your income. As a parent, you get to claim tax deductions which means more money out of my pocket to cover f…

Children are primarily their parent's responsibility, however if their parents are not present or able, then the responsibility is that of all other capable adults. But they are not yours or anyone else's investment and they do not belong to anyone.

They are people, not property.

Re: I Was Arrested for Learning a Foreign Language. Today, I Have Some Closure

#123

Post by ceejayoz » Sun, Jan 25, 2015, 8:09 PM UTC

javert wrote: post #108

paganel wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Sorry for missing your flight but I do expect TSA to flag me if I literally hand the agent a stack of cards with "bomb" and "terrorist" written on them. They are just words, it is not OK to "flag" anyone for carrying that around. Next thing you know we'll be "flagged" for reading Rousseau (whose works were a major influence on Robespierre, a renown "terrorist") or Karl Marx, a guy whose works were appropriated by a…

Marx's works were not appropriated, they were taken seriously, and to their full conclusion.

If you think Stalinist Russia/Maoist China were Marx's views "to their full conclusion", you should read past the title page.

Re: I Was Arrested for Learning a Foreign Language. Today, I Have Some Closure

#124

Post by ceejayoz » Sun, Jan 25, 2015, 8:15 PM UTC

bdg wrote: post #88

Of all the countries in the world, this is the one I am the most terrified of ever setting foot in. At least if I went to a place like Mogadishu, I may be at risk, but I know they don't have the resources to waste on finding out unknown knowns.

> At least if I went to a place like Mogadishu, I may be at risk, but I know they don't have the resources to waste on finding out unknown knowns.

Many of the places without those resources default to "you're fucked", not "we can't prove anything, let him go!"

Re: I Was Arrested for Learning a Foreign Language. Today, I Have Some Closure

#125

Post by dmix » Sun, Jan 25, 2015, 8:16 PM UTC

jacquesm wrote: post #47

adekok wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The truth is that millions of people a year travel, and don't have any problems. So you're most likely to be OK. The worrying part is that you don't know what will be "alerted" on. Flash cards? Pictures of your kids in the bath? You have no idea.

> The truth is that millions of people a year travel, and don't have any problems. He's not worried about being one of those that won't have any problems. He's worried about becoming one of those that did and that chance is way too high.

I got secondary-screened upon arrival because:

- I told the border guy I got paid via 'PayPal' and he had no idea what that was, they had to spend 20min Googling it

- My friends friend paid for our plane tickets, so they grilled us why we didnt buy our own

- I made a mistake on the customs claims sheet where I crossed something out and replaced it. Apparently they think this means you are trying to hide something and need to look through every piece of luggage, including possible hiding places in the luggage (that didnt turn out to exist).

There are countless reasons to get harassed. Hardly has to do with obvious security issues.

Re: I Was Arrested for Learning a Foreign Language. Today, I Have Some Closure

#126

Post by jnbiche » Sun, Jan 25, 2015, 8:17 PM UTC

kghose wrote: post #77

zaroth wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Other notable facts: recent travel to middle east, flash cards included words like "terrorist", "explosion", "bomb", "to kidnap", etc., didn't follow basic screening process guaranteeing an elevated inspection (left large electronics in bag), had the cards in his pocket and handed directly to the TSA agent. As soon as someone arrived who had the necessary pay-grade to release this guy, he was released. Sorry for miss…

Finally, some one with additional details I was waiting to hear. If they hauled everyone learning Arabic off the false positive rate should be sky high. I wonder, just wonder, if this person was an "activist". You know, someone who tries to go positive on sufficient features of the detector to pass the threshold.

> I wonder, just wonder, if this person was an "activist".

It's highly unlikely, since he had already studied Arabic at university and studied in Jordan. He clearly has a genuine interest in the language, including wanting to learn to read newspapers (which unfortunately feature words like "terrorists" and "kidnapping" in addition to the more mundane cards in his possession).

Re: I Was Arrested for Learning a Foreign Language. Today, I Have Some Closure

#127

Post by jqm » Sun, Jan 25, 2015, 8:19 PM UTC

jpindar wrote: post #113

jqm wrote: post #28

This is horrible, and the abuses of police and security personal in the US are egregious. In addition, US foreign policy as of late (late being the the last 150 years or so) is also pretty lame. That said, I often suspect there is more to stories like this than is being told. More than the book and flashcards. A suspicious look. Furtive eye movement in the TSA line. A "look" that might be interpreted as capable of vi…

"He did not know how long she had been looking at him, but perhaps for as much as five minutes, and it was possible that his features had not been perfectly under control. It was terribly dangerous to let your thoughts wander when you were in any public place or within range of a telescreen. The smallest thing could give you away. A nervous tic, an unconscious look of anxiety, a habit of muttering to yourself--anythi…

Yep. I think that's exactly the kind of thing they look for.

What I didn't realize was better stated above. 80 cards handed to TSA agent 10 of which contained "alarming" words in Arabic. I thought there was more to the story. Not justifying this arrest but really.... what does a reasonable person expect from cops and security agencies? Almost seems like deliberate antagonism rather than being innocently caught up.... but who knows.

Re: I Was Arrested for Learning a Foreign Language. Today, I Have Some Closure

#128

Post by Squarel » Sun, Jan 25, 2015, 8:22 PM UTC

zaroth wrote: post #53

DanBC wrote: post #41

Don't talk about bombs in an airport. While the reaction from security staff is stupid you have to be a fucking idiot to think that hand-written flashcards with words like... > “bomb,” “terrorist,” “explosion,” “attack,” “battle,” “kill,” “to target,” “to kidnap,” and “to wound.” ...are not going to arouse suspicion, especially among low-paid staff with little training. https://www.aclu.org/sites/default/files/assets…

Must be a setup right? I've taken several years of French in college, never had a vocab set quite like that! Another odd detail, TSA didn't randomly read a stack of paper in his carry-on. TFA says "handed cards to the agent" after being asked to empty pockets. How is a TSA lacky supposed to NOT alert a supervisor in that situation? The only thing more ridiculous would be after handing the deck of flash cards directly…

I took Danish, and part of our course involved writing essays on things that were in the newspapers, and then discussing it in class.

Can you imagine the sort of words that would be in my vocab list if it had been done in the last few weeks ?

Re: I Was Arrested for Learning a Foreign Language. Today, I Have Some Closure

#129

Post by jacquesm » Sun, Jan 25, 2015, 8:23 PM UTC

dmix wrote: post #125

jacquesm wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The truth is that millions of people a year travel, and don't have any problems. He's not worried about being one of those that won't have any problems. He's worried about becoming one of those that did and that chance is way too high.

I got secondary-screened upon arrival because: - I told the border guy I got paid via 'PayPal' and he had no idea what that was, they had to spend 20min Googling it - My friends friend paid for our plane tickets, so they grilled us why we didnt buy our own - I made a mistake on the customs claims sheet where I crossed something out and replaced it. Apparently they think this means you are trying to hide something and…

My solution is simple (if a bit of a cop out): I've decided not to visit the USA again until they retire the madness. If that means I'll never visit again then so be it. I used to go there several times per year and at some point the frustration over yet another confrontation with the 'first line of defense' boiled over into 'I don't actually have to be here' and I have spent my holiday money elsewhere ever since. It's got to add up over time, I'm pretty sure I'm not the only person that made that decision.

Re: I Was Arrested for Learning a Foreign Language. Today, I Have Some Closure

#130

Post by saraid216 » Sun, Jan 25, 2015, 8:24 PM UTC

kghose wrote: post #77

zaroth wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Other notable facts: recent travel to middle east, flash cards included words like "terrorist", "explosion", "bomb", "to kidnap", etc., didn't follow basic screening process guaranteeing an elevated inspection (left large electronics in bag), had the cards in his pocket and handed directly to the TSA agent. As soon as someone arrived who had the necessary pay-grade to release this guy, he was released. Sorry for miss…

Finally, some one with additional details I was waiting to hear. If they hauled everyone learning Arabic off the false positive rate should be sky high. I wonder, just wonder, if this person was an "activist". You know, someone who tries to go positive on sufficient features of the detector to pass the threshold.

...why were you waiting to hear these details? Court documents are open to the public.