I would be happy if my boss told me this... it would mean that I am getting paid higher than the norm.
That makes no sense. It could also be because he is paying you less. You should read the article.
When the Boss Says, 'Don't Tell Your Coworkers How Much You Get Paid'
111–120 of 242 posts
Re: When the Boss Says, 'Don't Tell Your Coworkers How Much You Get Paid'
#112This article seems to basically say its already illegal to prohibit employees from discussing pay (NLRA 1935) and it is certainly illegal to pay someone less based on race or sex (Equal Pay Act, and others) but the solution to wage discrimination is pass more laws that make it illegal-er. I have a hard time buying this argument. If you are an employer despicable enough to systematically be paying women less just for…
Just sharing your compensation with your co workers goes a long way toward solving this problem. But it is a social more to not share this information.
There's a very rational economic reason why some people are paid less than others for the same job. Leverage. Since WWII, women entered the work force in large numbers _because they were willing to work for less than their male counterparts._ So what was an opportunity for women once has become discrimination. Rightfully so. But it's important to remember how we actually got here. Equality of opportunity often translates into inequalities of outcome for reasons that are neither good nor efficient. So, yeah, sometimes the law can tip the scales to fix this. And that is not a bad thing.
Re: When the Boss Says, 'Don't Tell Your Coworkers How Much You Get Paid'
#113Earlier quoted context omitted.
If women are actually, objectively, less productive workers (if your explanation is correct), why is it wrong for companies to pay them less?
Women are not objectively less productive workers. Men die earlier--insurance companies have figured this out so why don't companies pay them less as a result? They're going to die sooner, that's a significant risk to the company, they should be paid less than women. Men are more likely to engage in risky behavior, more likely to have anger management issues, more likely to provoke harrassment cases, all reasons to p…
Men die earlier, yes. You have a point there. [2][3] says that ~90999/100000 males survive to age 60 and ~94194/100000 females survive to age 60. That's a difference of ~3195/100000, or ~3.2%.
However, the question becomes if men retire earlier.
And the answer is no. [1] Women retire earlier than men on average (at least in Canada. Don't have stats handy for anywhere else, unfortunately). And that's measured in years, more than compensating for the above.
Regarding disabled people, a simple answer is that society as a whole would be against it, as there is enough of a chance of any individual person becoming disabled that it is in their best interest to not allow such a law.
And making an argument from an economic as opposed to a moralistic point of view does not make one a sociopath. As you may not have noticed, I never mentioned my moral point of view on the matter, as it's irrelevant.
[1] http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/71-222-x/2008001/sectionm/m-age...
[2] http://www.prdh.umontreal.ca/BDLC/data/can/mltper_1x5.txt
[3] http://www.prdh.umontreal.ca/BDLC/data/can/fltper_1x5.txt
[4] http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/11-008-x/2012002/article/11697-...
Re: When the Boss Says, 'Don't Tell Your Coworkers How Much You Get Paid'
#114Earlier quoted context omitted.
If you are an employer despicable enough to systematically be paying women less just for being women, I don't think another redundant law is going to change your behavior. Women don't earn about 18% less than men (OECD median, 2008)[0] because a small minority of employers pay women almost nothing, but because the vast majority of employers pay women (or blacks, or handicapped people) slightly less. Just like laws th…
18% number is bullshit debunked many times. When you control for occupation, working hours, etc between male and female - the difference in pay is only 2-3%
Ah, but what if the reason women are in lower paid jobs is because if sexism?
Re: When the Boss Says, 'Don't Tell Your Coworkers How Much You Get Paid'
#115Earlier quoted context omitted.
There's also an issue with maternity leave. Maternity leave means that women effectively cost more than men for the same amount of work, in the long run and on average. This can be mitigated by laws, but cannot be eliminated without addressing the underlying social issues. And no, mandatory paternity leave doesn't eliminate it, as there are more single mothers than single fathers. The logic is simple. Companies survi…
This is less of an issue now than it used to be; most companies offer Paternity leave for the same amount of time these days. This amortizes the cost across all employees.
Men take less paternity leave on average than women take maternity leave.
Not to mention that in the case of single births, you'll end up with the women taking maternity leave while the men don't. And with marriage stats the way they are...
Which means that it's still advantageous for the company to hire men over women. Amortizing costs doesn't magically make the cost go away, it just hides it.
Re: When the Boss Says, 'Don't Tell Your Coworkers How Much You Get Paid'
#116I would be happy if my boss told me this... it would mean that I am getting paid higher than the norm.
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Re: When the Boss Says, 'Don't Tell Your Coworkers How Much You Get Paid'
#117Didn't everyone work this issue out when they first entered the work force? Soon after I got my first job out of college my employer told me it was "not a good idea to talk about your compensation" with my co-workers. You know how they say "consider the source" when you get information? Why would my employer not want me to share my compensation with my co-workers? _Because it benefits them_ if their workforce is obli…
If you know the salary of the people you're directly working with, things can get awkward. One alternative is to discuss salary with people who are sufficiently distant from your daily work but are expected to be making the same amount as you. For large companies, this would be people in different divisions who have the same title and years of experience. For small companies, you will probably need to talk to people in other companies.
In my first job out of college, I knew the range of salaries people were earning for entry level software positions because I had discussed this with friends. I negotiated a 10% raise to my first company's starting salary because I used my friends' salaries as a benchmark.
Re: When the Boss Says, 'Don't Tell Your Coworkers How Much You Get Paid'
#118If all salary was displayed publicly it wouldn't help the employee. It would take almost all negotiating abilities away (a senior developer with 5 years of experience will be paid the same rate as a senior developer with 10 years because companies don't want unhappy employees and people with the same titles will be upset they are not paid the same rate) and allow many companies to legally collude and pay similar rate…
There's a little cognitive dissonance there. You think that public salary info would be bad for everyone, because companies would no longer be willing to pay them far above average. But that's ignoring the obvious fact that the majority of people are not making far above average, so they don't have that to lose. Some of them are even making below average, so they would gain.
Re: When the Boss Says, 'Don't Tell Your Coworkers How Much You Get Paid'
#119What we need in the US is tough enforcement of the existing labor laws. The Wage and Hour Act, classification of employees vs contractors, and the right to organize are all in US law, but the penalties are weak. Did you know that you have the legal right in the US to organize a union whether your employer likes it or not?
In Canada, those rights have more teeth, and that alone produces much higher unionization.
Re: When the Boss Says, 'Don't Tell Your Coworkers How Much You Get Paid'
#120Didn't everyone work this issue out when they first entered the work force? Soon after I got my first job out of college my employer told me it was "not a good idea to talk about your compensation" with my co-workers. You know how they say "consider the source" when you get information? Why would my employer not want me to share my compensation with my co-workers? _Because it benefits them_ if their workforce is obli…
I've given up on the social nicety of not discussing pay, especially at my previous employer, but generally as well. I usually lead in with something like "I tend to ask the rude question, and don't answer if you don't want to, but what does that position pay?" So far, I've never had anyone not answer and most of the time it's led to further interesting discussion.