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When the Boss Says, 'Don't Tell Your Coworkers How Much You Get Paid'

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101–110 of 242 posts

Re: When the Boss Says, 'Don't Tell Your Coworkers How Much You Get Paid'

#101

If all salary was displayed publicly it wouldn't help the employee. It would take almost all negotiating abilities away (a senior developer with 5 years of experience will be paid the same rate as a senior developer with 10 years because companies don't want unhappy employees and people with the same titles will be upset they are not paid the same rate) and allow many companies to legally collude and pay similar rate…

I agree. When salaries are not public, there is just one factor that influences them, that is, the value that the company puts on that employee and the fear of losing him/ her to a better offer. On the other hand, it's much easier for the company to reject a request for a pay rise because it might upset other employees. Note, this mechanism only works downwards: the company will never give a pay rise to nine employees on the grounds that the tenth already has a higher salary.

Re: When the Boss Says, 'Don't Tell Your Coworkers How Much You Get Paid'

#102
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

18% number is bullshit debunked many times. When you control for occupation, working hours, etc between male and female - the difference in pay is only 2-3%

Not that I don't believe you, but could you link to said debunking?

This article[1] links to various sources which cite different values. Of those, this report[2] (research funded by US Department of Labour) states in it's summary (page 35);

"Specifically, variables have been developed to represent career interruption among workers with specific gender, age, and number of children. Statistical analysis that includes those variables has produced results that collectively account for between 65.1 and 76.4 of a raw gender wage gap of 20.4 percent, and thereby leave an adjusted wage gap that is between 4.8 and 7.1 percent."

My personal opinion is that there may be a slight gap, research that conservatively accounts for factors rather than assuming the difference is 100% gender-pay do tend to put it below 10%, however there just isn't enough hard evidence to account for all the variables which may cause such a gap, so finding an accurate value isn't possible. Each side of the debate will always find the most attractive figures to support their agenda, as can be seen by people quoting 20%+ raw wage gap analysis that doesn't account for difference in time worked etc, and others misreading statistics to say that it's lower than reported.

-------------------------- [1] http://www.huffingtonpost.com/christina-hoff-sommers/wage-ga...

[2] http://www.consad.com/content/reports/Gender%20Wage%20Gap%20...

Re: When the Boss Says, 'Don't Tell Your Coworkers How Much You Get Paid'

#103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is "women are less likely to counter-offer and negotiate during the hiring process" obviously not reality also? (Serious question.)

It is very likely. My wife is a very well respected Engineer in her field and when she was asked to come out of retirement, she retired to start a farm and enjoy the outdoors, they called her back and made what I thought was a very low offer. She was going to accept it because to her it was a work from home gig and was near what she used to make. I said no and helped her negotiate an additional 30% in her rate that s…

You may have found a calling. I hope you consider expanding the scope of your activities beyond your wife's friends. What would make it worth your while?

Re: When the Boss Says, 'Don't Tell Your Coworkers How Much You Get Paid'

#104
post #9

I work for more than a decade now and I still am unsure about what rule to follow. Here are a few things that I have seen happening: I once believed in transparency about that. I told my salary to a friend I just helped to get hired in the company where I already had a few years of experience. Upon hearing my higher salary, he immediately went to my boss to ask for a raise. Due to an incredible incompetence of the HR…

I'm in a very similar situation - I have been working for many years, and seen both extremes of salary transparency, but am still unsure about the best approach.

I started out in a very small but rapidly expanding software company, where the founders encouraged everyone (including themselves) to be very open about salaries. This didn't work too badly because most employees were recent graduates and no-one was earning much money. However it did generate some dischord when it became apparent that those from less prestigious universities were getting paid slightly less.

A few years later I was working in a very large corporation, where (like you), HR hadn't secured their data very well, and I got to see details of many thousands of salaries and bonuses, including those of some of the highest paid people in the UK at the time. Without going into too much detail, the remuneration disparities were staggering. I think it is fair to say that it was the sort of company that was prepared to pay as much as necessary and as little as possible. If the scale of inconsistencies were widely known, I would imagine it would have created a fairly toxic working environment.

So in the end it might come down to company size and culture. I can't imagine why a small coffee shop, like in the original article, would want to keep it so secret though.

Re: When the Boss Says, 'Don't Tell Your Coworkers How Much You Get Paid'

#106
post #76

In my opinion salary information should not be kept a secret except on personal request. Openness in pay, responsibilities and performance[0] leads to a far healthier company in my opinion and experience. That is not to say you stick the salary information out in the open in a database for all to check at will but during [pay] reviews I feel it is important to be able to see how much you earn compared to your direct…

I wonder if the data could be displayed anonymously, i.e. "your salary is 80th percentile in your department" or something like that. It would give you the information without disclosing how much each individual makes.

Re: When the Boss Says, 'Don't Tell Your Coworkers How Much You Get Paid'

#107
post #72

> When the Boss Says, 'Don't Tell Your Coworkers How Much You Get Paid' You say, "Are you ashamed of how much you pay me?", and start looking for another job.

"no, but your kind of talent is so valuable I pay you more than others and the awkwardness would hurt everybody"

Yeah, I agree. I used to believe that employers are being malicious and selfish when they hide salary details (and maybe some are), but over the years I've come to realize that most employees are simply too immature to accept that they may not actually be as valuable/important as they think. I personally wouldn't want to deal with all the awkwardness and drama introduced into the workplace even if it resulted in a 10-15% pay raise for me (although that's just me).

Re: When the Boss Says, 'Don't Tell Your Coworkers How Much You Get Paid'

#108
Didn't everyone work this issue out when they first entered the work force?

Soon after I got my first job out of college my employer told me it was "not a good idea to talk about your compensation" with my co-workers. You know how they say "consider the source" when you get information? Why would my employer not want me to share my compensation with my co-workers? _Because it benefits them_ if their workforce is oblivious about who is getting paid what. Make no mistake: sharing compensation information freely among your colleagues is, to most employers, the thin edge of a long wedge towards organized labor.

Personally, I would do it more often if people weren't so freaked out about it. So the bosses have waged a good campaign: it's a social norm.

Re: When the Boss Says, 'Don't Tell Your Coworkers How Much You Get Paid'

#110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A solution is to just make everyone's tax reports public. Hell no. I don't want to be targeted be advertisers, penalised by insurers, and become a target for robbery because I have my personal information spread around for everyone to see. There's a lot of personal shit on your tax return. Far more than is even apparent. It can also expose your side business to your employer which could cause issues. I'm all for sa…

I totally agree with this. The potential upside of doing this doesn't warrant the massive downside. Before you know it, you'll be getting bombarded with advertisements. Besides, in the EU, a society where the average person hates it when someone who is not him is doing well, I'd rather people not know how much I earn.

> EU [...] a society

Don't generalize. The EU has 28 member states, with diverse cultures and social norms. What works in Norway may not work in the southern Italy.

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