British Spy Agency Considers Journalists a Threat, Vacuums Up Their Emails • Hacker News Board

Re: British Spy Agency Considers Journalists a Threat, Vacuums Up Their Emails

#11

Post by cbd1984 » Fri, Jan 23, 2015, 4:47 AM UTC

AdeptusAquinas wrote: post #6

To me, this all smacks of weakness. If they were not breaking the law (at least in spirit), they wouldn't fear journalists. If they were capable of preventing or at least showing the danger of the acts they claim to fight, they wouldn't fear journalists. But because the danger is perhaps not as immediate or as severe as the political narrative might suggest, or because their intrusions into our privacy are not as nec…

So if the government weren't doing anything wrong, it wouldn't have anything to hide? ;)

You know, that logic might actually work in this case.

Re: British Spy Agency Considers Journalists a Threat, Vacuums Up Their Emails

#12

Post by deciplex » Fri, Jan 23, 2015, 4:49 AM UTC

louthy wrote: post #7

guelo wrote: post #2

What can you expect from a country that still has a functioning monarchy. There's a reason America revolted against England, you can see many of the reasons listed in our Bill of Rights.

So the NSA isn't doing this also? They're totally above board?

Honestly, the GCHQ does seem a lot more brazenly nefarious than the NSA. A lot of the shit that comes out of the mouths of GCHQ spokespersons, shows open contempt and disdain for civil liberties and due process. At the NSA, it's more like they just don't respect those things, or think fighting terrorism/drug cartels/flavor of the month, is more important.

If I could choose to dismantle one or the other, I'd go with the NSA, but only because it has more capability. I definitely wouldn't want the sons-of-bitches in charge of the GCHQ, running the NSA.

Re: British Spy Agency Considers Journalists a Threat, Vacuums Up Their Emails

#13

Post by nbevans » Fri, Jan 23, 2015, 5:04 AM UTC

nbevans wrote: post #3

After all the stuff the Guardian published, and which has directly resulted in a massive reduction in Europe-wide security from terrorism, it's easy to see why. The Paris terror attacks probably would have been stopped if Snowden/Guardian never happened or was better controlled in how the specific details were announced. UK's spy agency has more powers than the NSA can dream of; and is largely responsible for protect…

Not really sure why this is being down voted. But I guess it is HackerNews after all. A lot of dumb people on here.

Re: British Spy Agency Considers Journalists a Threat, Vacuums Up Their Emails

#14

Post by nbevans » Fri, Jan 23, 2015, 5:06 AM UTC

xnull4guest wrote: post #4

nbevans wrote: post #3

After all the stuff the Guardian published, and which has directly resulted in a massive reduction in Europe-wide security from terrorism, it's easy to see why. The Paris terror attacks probably would have been stopped if Snowden/Guardian never happened or was better controlled in how the specific details were announced. UK's spy agency has more powers than the NSA can dream of; and is largely responsible for protect…

Can you be more specific about what massive reductions in Europe-wide security resulted from the publications, and how they presumably would have stopped the Charlie Hebdo attacks?

Well, just search. But even just last week there was an article from a UK minister explaining that many dozens of Paris-style attacks have already been averted in Europe as a result of GCHQ spying. But that the tide is now growing so strong, and the terrorists much more wise after the Snowden leaks, that it is basically inevitable now that the UK itself will be attacked. The terror plot/arrests in Belgium recently were also guided by UK intelligence, he said.

Whenever you see "terror arrests made during dawn raid" on the news in UK, it's easy to dismiss it. But it happens pretty much every month now, and has been like that for a couple years now. Every one of these raids is potentially to stop a major terror attack; but the public is never told of the exact details of what they were plotting because otherwise that would defeat the purpose of averting a terror attack.

Re: British Spy Agency Considers Journalists a Threat, Vacuums Up Their Emails

#15

Post by ProAm » Fri, Jan 23, 2015, 5:07 AM UTC

AdeptusAquinas wrote: post #6

To me, this all smacks of weakness. If they were not breaking the law (at least in spirit), they wouldn't fear journalists. If they were capable of preventing or at least showing the danger of the acts they claim to fight, they wouldn't fear journalists. But because the danger is perhaps not as immediate or as severe as the political narrative might suggest, or because their intrusions into our privacy are not as nec…

They don't do it out of weakness, they do it for power and control.

Re: British Spy Agency Considers Journalists a Threat, Vacuums Up Their Emails

#16

Post by xnull4guest » Fri, Jan 23, 2015, 5:21 AM UTC

xnull4guest wrote: post #9

There's been global rise in violence and legal pursuit of journalists. But as many of the issues outside the US get attention I've compiled material related to the US: * The Obama Administration issued a secret surveillance operation against the Associated Press to break their sources [1] * Journalists like Ibrahim Jassam [2], Laura Poitras [3], Glenn Greenwald [4], James Risen [5], many others are being prosecuted a…

* Kenneth Tomlinson (a chairman to the foreign media propaganda arm of the United States) was put in charge of the Corporation for Public Broadcasting (NPR and PBS) and later retired after an internal investigation charged him with Ethics Violations for breaking the anti-propaganda law Public Broadcasting Act of 1967. Before leaving he handpicked State Department official Patricia Harrison to supersede him; Harrison has brought in Cheryl Halpern, Tim Isgitt, Mike Levy, Helen Mobley, and other State Department officials formerly in charge of US overseas propaganda efforts

For some reason edits to the parent comment are not going through.

Re: British Spy Agency Considers Journalists a Threat, Vacuums Up Their Emails

#17

Post by guelo » Fri, Jan 23, 2015, 5:24 AM UTC

xnull4guest wrote: post #9

There's been global rise in violence and legal pursuit of journalists. But as many of the issues outside the US get attention I've compiled material related to the US: * The Obama Administration issued a secret surveillance operation against the Associated Press to break their sources [1] * Journalists like Ibrahim Jassam [2], Laura Poitras [3], Glenn Greenwald [4], James Risen [5], many others are being prosecuted a…

There's been a global rise in violence and legal pursuit of journalists so brits are apparently going to refuse to take responsibility and are going to point fingers at the US instead.

Re: British Spy Agency Considers Journalists a Threat, Vacuums Up Their Emails

#18

Post by xnull4guest » Fri, Jan 23, 2015, 5:30 AM UTC

guelo wrote: post #17

xnull4guest wrote: post #9

There's been global rise in violence and legal pursuit of journalists. But as many of the issues outside the US get attention I've compiled material related to the US: * The Obama Administration issued a secret surveillance operation against the Associated Press to break their sources [1] * Journalists like Ibrahim Jassam [2], Laura Poitras [3], Glenn Greenwald [4], James Risen [5], many others are being prosecuted a…

There's been a global rise in violence and legal pursuit of journalists so brits are apparently going to refuse to take responsibility and are going to point fingers at the US instead.

Are you implying I'm British? (I'm American.)

I don't really get your comment. It sounds important, could you say it again another way?

Re: British Spy Agency Considers Journalists a Threat, Vacuums Up Their Emails

#19

Post by eru » Fri, Jan 23, 2015, 5:32 AM UTC

guelo wrote: post #2

What can you expect from a country that still has a functioning monarchy. There's a reason America revolted against England, you can see many of the reasons listed in our Bill of Rights.

Compare "Strictures upon the Declaration of Independence" by Thomas Hutchinson" (http://oll.libertyfund.org/pages/1776-hutchinson-strictures-...)

"Mr Hutchinson believes that the majority of Americans were deluded into war with Britain by a few crazies. A common experience in history. Read it, it's short. Pay attention to Mr Hutchinson pointing out logical inconsistencies between the revolutionaries' calls for freedom and their owning slaves." (https://foseti.wordpress.com/2009/04/10/review-of-strictures...)

Re: British Spy Agency Considers Journalists a Threat, Vacuums Up Their Emails

#20

Post by deciplex » Fri, Jan 23, 2015, 5:38 AM UTC

nbevans wrote: post #14

xnull4guest wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you be more specific about what massive reductions in Europe-wide security resulted from the publications, and how they presumably would have stopped the Charlie Hebdo attacks?

Well, just search. But even just last week there was an article from a UK minister explaining that many dozens of Paris-style attacks have already been averted in Europe as a result of GCHQ spying. But that the tide is now growing so strong, and the terrorists much more wise after the Snowden leaks, that it is basically inevitable now that the UK itself will be attacked. The terror plot/arrests in Belgium recently we…

So, at some point, the people need to be made aware of the efficacy (or lack thereof) of the policies enacted by the politicians they vote into office. How do you propose we make that happen? Because otherwise you're asking everyone to place absolute trust in people who you've already admitted will lie to the public as part of their job.