BlackBerry CEO Wants FCC to Make Developing BlackBerry Apps Mandatory • Hacker News Board

Re: BlackBerry CEO Wants FCC to Make Developing BlackBerry Apps Mandatory

#51

Post by walterbell » Thu, Jan 22, 2015, 9:09 PM UTC

declan wrote: post #48

walterbell wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An "API neutrality" proposal would make more sense. E.g. Apple wouldn't need to develop iMessage clients for non-Apple platforms, but they would not be able to block non-Apple platform client apps (developed by anyone) from connecting to the API. See HTTP, IMAP, Exchange, NFS, Windows SMB, etc.

Apple develops iMessage, and gives it away for free on iOS, as a way to make its own platforms more attractive. Let's say this hypothetical "API neutrality" proposal were to go through -- note the actual letter from Blackberry's CEO never mentioned the phrase "API"[1] -- then Apple might simply stop developing iMessage. Unless your hypothetical law forces them to make the API available and keep it available indefinit…

> Apple might simply stop developing iMessage

Or they might find other ways to make Apple platforms more attractive, without forced bundling of service APIs and platform clients.

Today, many customers use Apple's Mail client to access multiple email services. Since iMessage competitors (e.g. WhatsApp, BBM) would face the same regulations, Apple would have the option of supporting multiple message APIs in their client, giving customers more choice among competing services, and giving customers more choice among competing clients on each platform. We have years of data on Apple restrictions on web browser rendering on iOS, they have many possible mechanisms to advantage native clients of open APIs.

Re: BlackBerry CEO Wants FCC to Make Developing BlackBerry Apps Mandatory

#52

Post by verelo » Thu, Jan 22, 2015, 9:35 PM UTC

bactatin wrote: post #11

verelo wrote: post #7

If the BB platform wasn't a hunk of junk I would probably agree, it is creating an unfair playing field. The reality is, the blackberry dev tools are not equal, they are terrible and the reason we do not build for BB is not because we're evil and do not like them, its because they do not provide the tools to run a profitable business on their sub-par platform. To be fair, the iOS and Android platforms are far from pe…

Nothing you said is relevant in a free country. No one mandates software, it's called make your own.

To be clear, i'm not saying its the right thing to do and that i morally agree, i just see the argument they're making in comparison to the net neutrality argument and feel its a creative position that makes me stop to re-think things I previously felt were fair and valid. I don't think this is enough to change my mind on anything, but its interesting all the same.

Re: BlackBerry CEO Wants FCC to Make Developing BlackBerry Apps Mandatory

#53

Post by xnull4guest » Thu, Jan 22, 2015, 10:03 PM UTC

declan wrote: post #49

xnull2guest wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No one should force any company anything. It's a company's choice to do native apps, web apps, or whatever they like. I disagree with this for a couple reasons. (The first sentence is easy to disagree with but I won't engage it as a strawman and will assume you mean it in a very narrow sense). The reason is that I don't believe that it's purely a company's choice to create native apps, web apps, or whatever they li…

>Blackberry is asking for recognition that they can not compete in their own industry. If Blackberry merely wanted "recognition that they can not compete," they could put out a press release. Anytime you write a letter to Congress that includes the phrase "must be mandated" -- as Blackberry's CEO did -- it's abundantly clear you're asking a new law.

Did I say merely?

Blackberry is asking for recognition that they can not compete in their own industry. Not because they aren't able to build phones or write phone software or any other sensible reason. There is a barrier to the phone market for all but a few blessed companies.

They are asking that legal action be brought to bear on the situation.

Any time one looks at the interaction markets and laws they will find that both regulation and the lack of regulation can unfairly benefit the few over the many. One cannot snub regulation OR deregulation of markets merely on ideology.

There is an implicit snub here: "Blackberry looking for regulation as a handout. How corrupt - they must not be able to compete because they suck and are looking for some other avenue."

I argue that the reason Blackberry can't compete isn't due to their 'sucking' (they may or may not 'suck'), but due to other fundamentally asymmetric market forces that favor few enshrined parties at the cost of the many who would want to compete.

I say this not as a supporter of BlackBerry (I've never owned a BB device, never planned to, and dislike them for backdooring their devices for governments).

Instead I say this as a consumer who wants real choices and real market competition, and as a techie who would like to see software compatibility at large.

Re: BlackBerry CEO Wants FCC to Make Developing BlackBerry Apps Mandatory

#54

Post by ekianjo » Fri, Jan 23, 2015, 12:56 AM UTC

xnull2guest wrote: post #25

ekianjo wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What they're getting at is that services should leverage open technologies so that nobody's platform gets shut out No one should force any company anything. It's a company's choice to do native apps, web apps, or whatever they like. They are probably missing some part of the market by not developing for some platforms or not having mobile versions of their apps - that's their problem, and it makes them ripe for com…

> No one should force any company anything. It's a company's choice to do native apps, web apps, or whatever they like. I disagree with this for a couple reasons. (The first sentence is easy to disagree with but I won't engage it as a strawman and will assume you mean it in a very narrow sense). The reason is that I don't believe that it's purely a company's choice to create native apps, web apps, or whatever they li…

> Blackberry is asking for recognition that they can not compete in their own industry. Not because they aren't able to build phones or write phone software or any other sensible reason. There is a barrier to the phone market for all but a few blessed companies.

So what ? This is what is happens when you do too little, too late. It's not that Blackberry was suddenly hit by a meteor and had no way to compete before the situation changed. They had YEARS of near market monopoly even when the iPhone was just out. They were completely oblivious to the whole Smartphone thing taking off. If you don't play, you can't expect to win the game or even have a fair chance at winning - you just make yourself irrelevant. It's like saying that it's unfair that you can't buy an apartment in Paris because the property was cheaper before but now you can't afford it anymore - so, dear Regulator, please make property prices affordable again so that I can buy my piece of land. It's nonsensical. Google and Apple built their position through major investment, and as much as I hate native apps on both platforms, it's their right to build their walled garden if they want to.

Blackberry has several options in front of them: 1) sell their assets and call it quits before they are worth nothing. 2) make Android phones like everyone else and focus on what they are good at (hardware?) and hope to survive with that. 3) Take a blue ocean strategy and make something nobody else makes. Like a phone that does not track you or does not leak your personal information to every application out there. Who knows, there may be a market for this kind of things too.

Re: BlackBerry CEO Wants FCC to Make Developing BlackBerry Apps Mandatory

#55

Post by xnull2guest » Fri, Jan 23, 2015, 6:21 AM UTC

ekianjo wrote: post #54

xnull2guest wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No one should force any company anything. It's a company's choice to do native apps, web apps, or whatever they like. I disagree with this for a couple reasons. (The first sentence is easy to disagree with but I won't engage it as a strawman and will assume you mean it in a very narrow sense). The reason is that I don't believe that it's purely a company's choice to create native apps, web apps, or whatever they li…

> Blackberry is asking for recognition that they can not compete in their own industry. Not because they aren't able to build phones or write phone software or any other sensible reason. There is a barrier to the phone market for all but a few blessed companies. So what ? This is what is happens when you do too little, too late. It's not that Blackberry was suddenly hit by a meteor and had no way to compete before th…

The reason it is a problem is not because of Blackberry (or any other company) losing out.

It's because there can only be one or two big app stores and so the market for phones - be it Apple and Google, Microsoft and Blackberry, or Samsung and Nexus. Duopolies are bad.

Telling the story from Blackberry's perspective ("the loser") or from Apple's perspective ("the winner") misses the point.

The perspective to look at this from is the consumer's vantage point, where more a more even playing field means more competition.

Re: BlackBerry CEO Wants FCC to Make Developing BlackBerry Apps Mandatory

#56

Post by ekianjo » Fri, Jan 23, 2015, 6:47 AM UTC

xnull2guest wrote: post #55

ekianjo wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Blackberry is asking for recognition that they can not compete in their own industry. Not because they aren't able to build phones or write phone software or any other sensible reason. There is a barrier to the phone market for all but a few blessed companies. So what ? This is what is happens when you do too little, too late. It's not that Blackberry was suddenly hit by a meteor and had no way to compete before th…

The reason it is a problem is not because of Blackberry (or any other company) losing out. It's because there can only be one or two big app stores and so the market for phones - be it Apple and Google, Microsoft and Blackberry, or Samsung and Nexus. Duopolies are bad. Telling the story from Blackberry's perspective ("the loser") or from Apple's perspective ("the winner") misses the point. The perspective to look at…

Nothing prevents Blackberry from making an Android phone, though, and having their own store instead of the regular Google Store, thus reaping the benefits of Android applications sold on their platform without having to ask developers to make entire new versions of app for a losing standard. That's what Amazon does.

Re: BlackBerry CEO Wants FCC to Make Developing BlackBerry Apps Mandatory

#57

Post by xnull2guest » Fri, Jan 23, 2015, 7:32 AM UTC

ekianjo wrote: post #56

xnull2guest wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason it is a problem is not because of Blackberry (or any other company) losing out. It's because there can only be one or two big app stores and so the market for phones - be it Apple and Google, Microsoft and Blackberry, or Samsung and Nexus. Duopolies are bad. Telling the story from Blackberry's perspective ("the loser") or from Apple's perspective ("the winner") misses the point. The perspective to look at…

Nothing prevents Blackberry from making an Android phone, though, and having their own store instead of the regular Google Store, thus reaping the benefits of Android applications sold on their platform without having to ask developers to make entire new versions of app for a losing standard. That's what Amazon does.

My worry is that this like saying (in the 90s) that Apple (or Honeywell, Novell, Amiga, whatever) should make a Microsoft PC - 'focus on the hardware, stop asking developers to make an entirely new version of software for their losing standard' - instead of taking due anti-trust action against the fixers of the market.

That's akin to saying "Okay, we found a winner - all OS sales will be to this one (or two - whatever) companies. Everyone else can compete underneath the vertical on the final consumer product of this mono(duo)poly but they can not compete to make a better OS/platform/marketplace/social website".

I mean, I think we both understand each other here. We both understand that there are companies that monopolize parts of the software industry, and prevent others from competing.

Can I try to say what I think you're getting at? I don't want to put words in your mouth, so please correct me if this is not right.

Your analysis, I think, is trying to say that there are other places that a company can compete when corners of the information industry are monopolized; and that companies can bide their time in an attempt to win the 'next big thing'; that the nature of the information industry and its companies is to leapfrog one over another by 'disrupting' the current paradigm and finding a throne in the next (wary, thereon, of being similarly usurped). In this analysis someone would point to competition being fair in the sense that everyone has some relatively fair chance at being the next big paradigm setter.

Maybe someone who believed that would say to someone like me that I'm looking at competition in the market on too small a scale. That I'm look at a fair phone market when soon everyone will be wearing smart glasses (or whatever) instead. Someone who believed that might say to Blackberry that if they want to be a top dog again they can't do it in phones - they have to go make some digital glasses.