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Startup jobs with low salary and negligible equity, what gives?

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Re: Startup jobs with low salary and negligible equity, what gives?

#111

The target candidate for these startups largely doesn't exist. Most folks accepting such a salary in the Bay Area are recently out of college and living in small apartments with roommates. When it's all said and done, most of these startups will settle for a few offshore contractors or hire remote people who live in cheaper parts of the country where $90K goes a lot further. The tried and true "solution" to this prob…

"accept the lifestyle choices that it imposes in the Bay Area"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8BDpqekENQ

Re: Startup jobs with low salary and negligible equity, what gives?

#112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you link me to some of these so I can laugh?

http://www.quora.com/How-do-you-make-programmers-work-60-80-... http://www.quora.com/How-can-you-inspire-programmers-to-work...

I saw those questions before, and I honestly wondered if the people asking them were really stupid or just trolling.

Re: Startup jobs with low salary and negligible equity, what gives?

#113
post #6

> Who would take these deals? People that are insecure about what they bring to the table. Pre series-A the risks are still huge and the stock should be priced accordingly. Say the founders think a pre series-A company is worth $2M and they offer 0.05% equity you could enter negotiations asking for 1% more if you feel like it (and walk away if it goes below 75% of your counter opening bid) if you can defend the posit…

If they're so stingy with the equity upfront, won't that make you suspicious they'll just try to screw you out of it later?

Let's flip that around: If they are not stingy upfront then that shows that they know they can screw you out of it later, the fact that they are stingy indicates they will have to pay up.

Re: Startup jobs with low salary and negligible equity, what gives?

#116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For what it's worth, n=1, I got an internship at Google and a full-time job at Apple by applying through their respective websites. I wholeheartedly agree with checking out 'other' doors, but it definitely doesn't hurt to at least start with the front door.

Google and Apple are the exceptions. They are massive profitable publicly held companies. And they don't compensate ordinary hires with equity on a percentage basis (maybe x number of shares as a bonus/retirement package). They are so big that they have HR policies and anyone you are likely to know well enough to give a heads up on a job at either company is not high up enough to shirk the formal HR process. Small co…

I'm on a first name basis with well-known engineers high enough to shrink the formal HR process at Google, Yahoo and Facebook. If I asked to interview with them tomorrow, they'd put me in the process immediately, in an expedited manner. I'd probably go straight to the on-site interview.

I'm not bragging about this, because it really wasn't difficult to do. I didn't go to school with them, and with one exception I met them all after they had joined their companies.

Cold-emailing influential people, or introducing yourself to them at meetups, or any one of the myriad other ways to meet people applies in this situation.

Just be genuine, and network with them long before you'd ever want to call in a favor, this way you actually have a relationship with them. It also helps if you share something in common and actually have something to talk about, and if you want to connect with them for the sake of having smart colleagues, not just influential friends.

Re: Startup jobs with low salary and negligible equity, what gives?

#117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, why the hell would anyone leave that much money on the table? If you're asking me to do something crazy, you better be willing to pay for it. .5% equity, especially when it will end up being diluted, is a fool's game.

> So, why the hell would anyone leave that much money on the table? If you're asking me to do something crazy, you better be willing to pay for it. At most early-stage startups, there is no money on the table. If you want to maximize your earnings, focusing your job search on pre-Series A startups is a horrible waste of time. The OP seems to be asking for startup excitement, reasonable hours, high salary and meaningf…

The expected value of a startup, even pre-Series A, is not 0.

Re: Startup jobs with low salary and negligible equity, what gives?

#118
post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "why you shouldn't hire me" Care to share this?

I don't want to spend 8 hours interviewing for a job and not get it, right? so I try to get the likely dealbreakers out of the way up front. Of course, it never works. You don't get to talk with the people that matter until you are in the interview, at which point, well, I haven't found a way to let them gracefully cut things off early, you know? In this case, I had been working for a company that I owned most of for…

I understand your reasoning, I was just wondering if you had like an actual list you attach to your resume.

Re: Startup jobs with low salary and negligible equity, what gives?

#119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's definitely low, even outside of the valley. Probably not low in the mid-west.

Around here, most programming jobs top out around 60-70K. I've seen a couple for around the 90K mark, but not many and most require quite a lot of experience. Near Utah.

Top out? I started at 65k with one year of experience in Utah Valley. And the company I worked out didn't pay super well.

Re: Startup jobs with low salary and negligible equity, what gives?

#120
post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google and Apple are the exceptions. They are massive profitable publicly held companies. And they don't compensate ordinary hires with equity on a percentage basis (maybe x number of shares as a bonus/retirement package). They are so big that they have HR policies and anyone you are likely to know well enough to give a heads up on a job at either company is not high up enough to shirk the formal HR process. Small co…

I'm on a first name basis with well-known engineers high enough to shrink the formal HR process at Google, Yahoo and Facebook. If I asked to interview with them tomorrow, they'd put me in the process immediately, in an expedited manner. I'd probably go straight to the on-site interview. I'm not bragging about this, because it really wasn't difficult to do. I didn't go to school with them, and with one exception I met…

When my good friends whom I helped get jobs now work for Google won't speak to me anymore, I just assume it's because they know I wouldn't make a good programmer there. It's a rough river to paddle.
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