Startup jobs with low salary and negligible equity, what gives?

#1

Post by 4k » Wed, Jan 21, 2015, 3:47 PM UTC

Hi HN, I am a developer in my 30s with over a decade of experience. Being on a lookout for a new job, I have been researching lots of jobs lately (since I don't mind moving, been looking in most parts of the US). I am divided at the moment between finding a startup job or finding a rather drab big corp job with good money.

I noticed some rather unsettling job adverts in the past while. Some pre series-A startups in the valley offering like $90k in salary for an experienced developer and 0.05% equity. I am just trying to understand who are their target candidates that they expect to join for such an offer (not to mention crazy working hours)?

I have a small family with SO not working. So, I'd be at best manage to make ends meet at that kinda salary in SF, plus the equity is negligible, and the work hours... seriously, am I missing something here? Who would take these deals? And then I often find popular posts on HN where founders are giving out about how tough it is to get good engineers!

Re: Startup jobs with low salary and negligible equity, what gives?

#2

Post by UK-AL » Wed, Jan 21, 2015, 4:00 PM UTC

You'd think developers would be good with numbers. But put $ signs in front of those numbers, and suddenly they're not very good. Trading away hard cash for gimmicks, and a tiny amount of equity in early stage startups.

Re: Startup jobs with low salary and negligible equity, what gives?

#3

Post by kordless » Wed, Jan 21, 2015, 4:02 PM UTC

UK-AL wrote: post #2

You'd think developers would be good with numbers. But put $ signs in front of those numbers, and suddenly they're not very good. Trading away hard cash for gimmicks, and a tiny amount of equity in early stage startups.

Did I mention we have free lunch AND dinner brought in each day?

Re: Startup jobs with low salary and negligible equity, what gives?

#4

Post by qodeninja » Wed, Jan 21, 2015, 4:07 PM UTC

If youve got a job already just hold tight, Q1 isn't even over yet. Most hiring kicks up again right before the spring when the sun is out again

If startups aren't willing to provide the means they don't deserve good engineers.

Re: Startup jobs with low salary and negligible equity, what gives?

#5

Post by informatimago » Wed, Jan 21, 2015, 4:08 PM UTC

You missed H1B.

Re: Startup jobs with low salary and negligible equity, what gives?

#6

Post by jacquesm » Wed, Jan 21, 2015, 4:10 PM UTC

> Who would take these deals?

People that are insecure about what they bring to the table.

Pre series-A the risks are still huge and the stock should be priced accordingly. Say the founders think a pre series-A company is worth $2M and they offer 0.05% equity you could enter negotiations asking for 1% more if you feel like it (and walk away if it goes below 75% of your counter opening bid) if you can defend the position that there is still a 95% chance that the company won't make it unless they have you on board.

Otherwise price the stock at 0 and ask for a market conform salary.

They'll move. An offer is just an opening move, nothing more.

Re: Startup jobs with low salary and negligible equity, what gives?

#7

Post by carsongross » Wed, Jan 21, 2015, 4:12 PM UTC

Low salaries and negligible equity are the natural consequence of there not being enough technical talent in the Bay Area.

...

Re: Startup jobs with low salary and negligible equity, what gives?

#8

Post by endeavour » Wed, Jan 21, 2015, 4:12 PM UTC

It's even worse in Europe.

Re: Startup jobs with low salary and negligible equity, what gives?

#9

Post by lambda9009 » Wed, Jan 21, 2015, 4:13 PM UTC

Here's a way to counter this: interview, make them want you, and then decline any offer explicitly because of the comp.

Startup founders are trying to go (even more) lean and cheap out on salaries, relying either on inexperienced new grads, the insecure, or on a "rah rah go team, the company is priority #1" culture of self-sacrifice. Don't play into it.

Re: Startup jobs with low salary and negligible equity, what gives?

#10

Post by avinassh » Wed, Jan 21, 2015, 4:14 PM UTC

kordless wrote: post #3

UK-AL wrote: post #2

You'd think developers would be good with numbers. But put $ signs in front of those numbers, and suddenly they're not very good. Trading away hard cash for gimmicks, and a tiny amount of equity in early stage startups.

Did I mention we have free lunch AND dinner brought in each day?

and a pingpong table too