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The Next Chapter – moot retires from 4chan

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Re: The Next Chapter – moot retires from 4chan

#131

Post by ANTSANTS »

headwayoldest wrote: post #119
ANTSANTS wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Members of the anti-GG and social justice crowds have carried out similarly stupid and counterproductive acts of aggression and bullying. They still all deserve a voice and home. SWATing is horrible, but IMHO you should be placing more of the blame on our fucked up militarized police system that lets bored teenagers send an armored car full of soldiers, armed to the teeth and ready to kill to anyone's house with a si…

>Members of the anti-GG and social justice crowds have carried out similarly stupid and counterproductive acts of aggression and bullying. It's not directly relevant to the topic, but if you really believe this you should better educate yourself with regard to what has been done in the name of gamergate. >IMHO you should be placing more of the blame on our fucked up militarized police system that lets bored teenagers…

>It's not directly relevant to the topic, but if you really believe this you should better educate yourself with regard to what has been done in the name of gamergate.

No, really, gamergate supporters like Milo Yiannopoulos have also been doxxed, sent death threats to, sent threatening packages to, had their family members harassed, etc. The social justice movement contains honest supporters of diversity in tech, and psychotic scumbags like Shanley Kane. There are idiotic assholes on both "sides," and you shouldn't let them discount the entirety of the movements they "support."

I'm in no way excusing SWATing, but I absolutely think the outrage it generates should be directed towards our militarized police system. The drunk driving analogy is stupid because the benefits that cars provide to society outweigh the negatives of drunk drivers, but there is no good reason for an anonymous tip to warrant armed soldiers breaking into your house in the night, usually making no indication that they are policemen and not just thugs and robbers, and shooting you dead if you so much as move the wrong way in your confusion. It's a profoundly dangerous and easy to abuse system, and it needs to change.

Re: The Next Chapter – moot retires from 4chan

#132

Post by Crito »

x0x0 wrote: post #90
ANTSANTS wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's fair, but then he shouldn't have been surprised when his site started hemorrhaging users who were there entirely for the freedom of speech they enjoyed. 8chan will probably last much longer than 4chan precisely because Fredrick refuses to make those judgement calls about what is and isn't acceptable. He doesn't need to bear a heavy conscience about what kind of speech he is allowing, he just follows the law to…

That is, to be blunt, bullshit. Frederick doesn't let them do their thing; he actively enables it. That's significantly different. Comparisons to Hitchens are similarly misleading; there is a large difference between enabling vs not stopping. While I support eg the KKK or gamergate jerks' right to talk and organize, I'm damn well not helping pay for it.

What is the line between "enabling" and "not stopping"?

When the ACLU spends money defending the KKK's first amendment rights in court, are they enabling the KKK, or merely not stopping them?

Re: The Next Chapter – moot retires from 4chan

#133

Post by na85 »

mhurron wrote: post #100
na85 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>it's basically Reddit, but for image boards I think reddit has shown us quite conclusively that the "create-your-own-niche" paradigm simply leads to a series of over-specialized echo chambers with perpetually rising levels of groupthink and self-reinforcing, self-congratulatory posting. In other words I think reddit's architecture amplifies shitposting rather than mitigating it.

4chan isn't really different. Instead of taking your ball to another subreddit where you can now bully everyone who disagrees with you, 4chan just screams at you until you submit to the will of the board or you take your ball to some other website. Reddit and 4chan are both pretty big echo chambers, it's just the way they (the users) maintain it that's different.

>4chan isn't really different.

>Instead of taking your ball to another subreddit where you can now bully everyone who disagrees with you, 4chan just screams at you until you submit to the will of the board or you take your ball to some other website.

That's precisely the difference that I was referring to when I said that 4chan is more of a melting pot. Either people fit in and stay, or they don't fit in and leave.

By contrast, reddit (and I guess 8chan which I've never visited) operates on a "something for everyone" model which I find more irksome with each passing day. I'm sure it's a great model if you're trying to sell ads, but in terms of UX I think it's the pits.

Combine with the lack of anonymity and prominent karma scores, and you've got a recipe for constant regurgitation of lowest-common-denominator memes, shitposting, and cults of personalty.

That's why reddit is quickly becoming one of my least favourite websites.

Re: The Next Chapter – moot retires from 4chan

#134

Post by cheepin »

bacongobbler wrote: post #115
digi_owl wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, i'm not sure how you would monetize a place like 4chan. Most high paying ads would likely shun it like the plague, so as to not have their brands forever socially tainted.

pure speculation, but I'm pretty sure brands which are already socially tainted by the general public (e.g. adult entertainment) would gladly take up 4chan for ad space and visibility.

They tend to get similar advertisers to sites like the pirate bay. At one point, they had duckduckgo advertisements but I was so cynical that I assumed it was just crap like the rest of the ads... never clicked on it.

Re: The Next Chapter – moot retires from 4chan

#135

Post by IndianAstronaut »

MrDom wrote: post #124
maresca wrote: post #113

I went to Startup School in New York last year and saw moot there. While outside between presentations, someone in the crowd called out "Chris, Chris Poole!" and some other memes at him. He seemed really put off by it and hightailed it out of there. I'd imagine he gets that often and could understand how that could be draining.

That's something that I haven't seen mentioned yet: The last few years, Moot has appeared to have nothing but contempt for the people who post on his site. I imagine a decade of being marinated in the worst the internet has to offer would do that to anybody.

He did create that cesspit and allowed it to thrive and attract the dredges of society. Not until 6 or 7 years into the site did he decide to crack down on the cp posted there. He definitely deserves ridicule.

Re: The Next Chapter – moot retires from 4chan

#136

Post by cheepin »

unfunco wrote: post #110
x0x0 wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

or the constant posting of child porn

Constant loli covers that I presume?

It's the legal loophole around CP at 4chan (luckily only at /b/). It's not clearly illegal so it doesn't get banned, but it's also obviously just drawn CP.

Re: The Next Chapter – moot retires from 4chan

#137

Post by Kalium »

Crito wrote: post #129
Kalium wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've actually had arguments with people who believe drunk driving is the fault of "the system" for not making transit instant and free for everyone. So blaming auto manufacturers is the sort of thing people actually believe.

> "I've actually had arguments with people who believe drunk driving is the fault of "the system" for not making transit instant and free for everyone." "Fault" is a concept that I believes always lies with the person who is actually committing the crime, but I think the general idea isn't outlandish. Say I've got a problem of drunks leaving the bars at night and pissing on the sidewalk. I can make it illegal, arrest…

This particular person believed that going out and getting drunk was a basic human right, and that having to be responsible for your own transportation infringed on that right. Less of the pragmatic concessions and more of the bizarre notions of fault.

Re: The Next Chapter – moot retires from 4chan

#138

Post by Torgo »

BryantD wrote: post #62
sroerick wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Discussion of Gamergate has been taken down in some form from every major communications platform other than (to my limited knowledge) 8chan and twitter. Facebook, Reddit, YouTube and 4chan have all removed content related to GamerGate

I would state this slightly differently: discussion considered to be abusive by the moderators/admins of their sites has been taken down in some form from every major communications platform. In some cases, that discussion involves GamerGate. It is possible to construct a conspiracy theory in which GamerGate is being censored, but given the existence of (say) http://www.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAction/ , it's hard for me…

It appears that the classification of any discussion at all, short of total condemnation was considered by many places to be "abusive". I have never in my life seen such aggressive comment-filtering, almost everywhere, as related to this topic.

Re: The Next Chapter – moot retires from 4chan

#139

Post by MrDom »

IndianAstronaut wrote: post #135
MrDom wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's something that I haven't seen mentioned yet: The last few years, Moot has appeared to have nothing but contempt for the people who post on his site. I imagine a decade of being marinated in the worst the internet has to offer would do that to anybody.

He did create that cesspit and allowed it to thrive and attract the dredges of society. Not until 6 or 7 years into the site did he decide to crack down on the cp posted there. He definitely deserves ridicule.

I do think he deserves ridicule, but not for that. He stood up for the ideals of free, anonymous speech. He believed in it. But he eventually buckled under the weight of it. He was a hero for holding out as long as he did, but all heroes fall. What he's become now is worthy of ridicule.

Re: The Next Chapter – moot retires from 4chan

#140

Post by theorique »

steveklabnik wrote: post #107
Kalium wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Ever heard the phrase "my right to extend my arm stops at your nose"? Great idea. Easy to misapply, because with speech people are very bad at knowing where their nose actually is. Having hurt feelings from something someone said? Not being hit in the nose, but I know plenty of people disagree.

Let's be real here, SWAT teams showing up at your house is far different than 'having hurt feelings from something someone said.'

This hasn't happened though. It's rare enough that people use it as a hypothetical example of "oh my god, what if?"
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