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Salary negotiations for techies (2011)

jacquesmattheij.com

211–220 of 234 posts

Re: Salary negotiations for techies (2011)

#211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Putting a basket in the break room, filled with menus from nearby take-out restaurants, is even easier. I have worked at a lot of different companies, and an ad-hoc, employee-organized lunch run is very common. The person who commits to handling the cash and picking up the food decides on the restaurant, orders are placed by a deadline, and people eat it when it arrives. If a manager or admin staffer names the restau…

I think your suggestion works well at a smaller company (<50 employees), but as the company starts moving to multiple floors/buildings and departments become a bit more isolated then the organic lunches tend to be intra-department vs inter-department. We have lunch brought in once a week. On the days we don't have lunch it is very much as you describe within each department, but on the day the company provides lunch…

I don't know, This is more or less how my company works (~150 people). It scales well, because even in a larger company there is a certain amount of intermingling between teams as developers change roles over time. For example, I know a lot of people in my company because I have moved across several different teams during my four year tenure. I just throw the people I want to hang out with at lunch on a Skype group chat. Sometimes they join and sometimes they do not.

On a different note, at my company, talking about work at lunch is pretty taboo unless the topic of the lunch was previously disclosed by the initiator to be work-related. Lunch is when we talk about all kinds of other bullshit and only talk about work if we're desperately spinning our wheels on something or want to vent.

Re: Salary negotiations for techies (2011)

#212
post #150

The most important salary negotiation tip: DON'T TELL THEM HOW MUCH YOU ARE CURRENTLY BEING PAID OR GIVE THEM A RANGE. Recruiters always ask this up front and INSIST that they must know. I have NEVER been denied the opportunity to interview for refusing to give a number upfront. If you're applying at a company, it means you've done at least a little research on what they should be expected to pay and you see somewher…

> DON'T TELL THEM HOW MUCH YOU ARE CURRENTLY BEING PAID OR GIVE THEM A RANGE. [...] No matter what, don't give them a number. Make them give you a number first and negotiate from there. What tactic do you use for this?

There's also the anchoring theory, where the discussion centres around the first number that any party says out loud. So in the case where the company goes first they might offer a low number (for them) which may be reasonable for you but not what you want.

So the way to use that to your advantage is to say a number first, but make sure it is far more than what you think you can get, but not absurdly high. That way if they accept you'll be pleasantly surprised, but if they negotiate down it will be around that figure.

Of course if you're not confident in that, just let them put out the first number and go from there. But NEVER tell them what you are currently getting, that will anchor your salary to what it is now plus a small increase.

Re: Salary negotiations for techies (2011)

#213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, I just thought that the parent was only presenting one side of the math.

Mostly I was - and I suspect that is fair too. Let's imagine we are Board of BigCo. Our CEO just took home fifty mil for what is at best a lacklustre performance. We could fire his ass, but who do we replace him with? We could get pretty much anyone here on HN to do the job, for just one tenth of the cost. But if we hire say that lifeisstillgood, the inevitable PR disasters will wipe more than fifty mil off our stock…

Oh, there's also power dynamics at play. In practice most companies are run for the benefit of top management, not shareholders.

Some economist did a rather macabre study of share prices of companies as their CEO's died in various accidents. (Ie removal of the CEO controlled by factors outside corporate politics.)

Re: Salary negotiations for techies (2011)

#214
post #156

The most important salary negotiation tip: DON'T TELL THEM HOW MUCH YOU ARE CURRENTLY BEING PAID OR GIVE THEM A RANGE. Recruiters always ask this up front and INSIST that they must know. I have NEVER been denied the opportunity to interview for refusing to give a number upfront. If you're applying at a company, it means you've done at least a little research on what they should be expected to pay and you see somewher…

I have to agree, and even add: Never tell them first what you what want as payment. My method was always to say: Lets delay this unimportant money question. I'm a coder, I want to talk about coding, about your company culture, about your projects, about your testing environments, ... all those are much more important to me then salary. And when they come out with a price tag finally I often tell: Well thats a nice sa…

Of course you tell them what you want first. Why would you wait? You want to be setting the stage, and anchor any subsequent numbers.

Re: Salary negotiations for techies (2011)

#215
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry to be pedantic but it is the "cue" to them that you are looking, not "queue".

Kind of undercuts all the points made. Also, if you walk on water you should be working at Google or FaceBook? Hunh?

You don't have to walk on water to work at either of them. With a bit of coaching, the median HN member would qualify.

Re: Salary negotiations for techies (2011)

#216
post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, just curious, but what makes you so confident you'll be getting back-to-back massive payraises? And when do you think it'll stop?

Hard to explain in any kind of useful way. Let's just say I hack my career like I hack code. I don't expect it to ever stop.

That's a good attitude you have! But honestly, you are still working for peanuts, if you are any good as a programmer.

How long have you been programming professionally?

Re: Salary negotiations for techies (2011)

#217
post #78

In (my) theory your salary is between the company's best alternative (hiring someone else for X) and your best alternative (go work for other company for Y). Companies do well as they interview many candidates. Developers generally do worse as they go to less interviews - obviously due to resource constrains. If you are shit hot good, both X and Y go up. The black magic of negotiating is a rounding error compared to…

Exactly! Keep interviewing, and be ready to jump ship. If you are willing to relocate, the world is your oyster.

And you don't have to be all that great and unique. Interviewing for a tech job is a skill you improve with just a bit of practice.

Re: Salary negotiations for techies (2011)

#218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I once had a major tech company tell me during negotiations that "you can't really put a price on free meals", which I thought was a truly absurd thing to say.

I have heard this line enough with regards to Google that I believe it is Standard Operating Procedure. Your counterparty knows they are in a negotiation. They have been in thousands of negotiations. They have a written list of words to say because they win negotiations. You can adapt to this environment, for example by coming in with prepared messaging of your own, and not meekly acquiescing to their first offer whe…

Why come in with a prepared message? You don't have to counter their message, when you can just dismiss it. Focus on the numbers.

Re: Salary negotiations for techies (2011)

#219
post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds nice, but I would make a big difference between being a contractor and an employee. Where I live, hiring contractors is much less risky (because of employment laws etc), therefore for contractors it is quite natural to pay more. I'm an employer myself.

Hourly payment is good for employees, and bad for consultants. I'm now consulting again, and I avoid selling hours, because hours do not scale. Instead I sell solutions, because a solution to a problem likely has a much higher value than the hours summed up. Also, if you switch from consulting to being employed you can ask for much better terms, then anyone who had been unemployed before. Always add the term to your…

>I'll play only €208 per month for my flat in Bremen

I also live in germany and I'm always confused when americans talk about salary because I have no idea what the cost of living is. The only thing I know is that gas and electronics are cheaper in the US.

Re: Salary negotiations for techies (2011)

#220

The most important salary negotiation tip: DON'T TELL THEM HOW MUCH YOU ARE CURRENTLY BEING PAID OR GIVE THEM A RANGE. Recruiters always ask this up front and INSIST that they must know. I have NEVER been denied the opportunity to interview for refusing to give a number upfront. If you're applying at a company, it means you've done at least a little research on what they should be expected to pay and you see somewher…

I used to trick of pretending that I was contractially forbidden (by my current employers) to talk about my salary.
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