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Salary negotiations for techies (2011)

jacquesmattheij.com

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Re: Salary negotiations for techies (2011)

#181

Post by logfromblammo »

vproman wrote: post #144

The most important salary negotiation tip: DON'T TELL THEM HOW MUCH YOU ARE CURRENTLY BEING PAID OR GIVE THEM A RANGE. Recruiters always ask this up front and INSIST that they must know. I have NEVER been denied the opportunity to interview for refusing to give a number upfront. If you're applying at a company, it means you've done at least a little research on what they should be expected to pay and you see somewher…

I have three times been denied the opportunity to interview because I refused to give away my bargaining power in this fashion.

If a company won't interview you until after you say a number, you don't want to work for them. Really, you don't. They are literally making their first interaction with you a dominance game designed to decrease your compensation. How do you think that will pan out for you two years down the road?

Re: Salary negotiations for techies (2011)

#182

Post by vinceguidry »

xienze wrote: post #168
vinceguidry wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whatever you want to call it, I expect a bigger one next year.

So, just curious, but what makes you so confident you'll be getting back-to-back massive payraises? And when do you think it'll stop?

Hard to explain in any kind of useful way. Let's just say I hack my career like I hack code. I don't expect it to ever stop.

Re: Salary negotiations for techies (2011)

#183

Post by tim333 »

jacques_chester wrote: post #111
tim333 wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's probably an issue which is why to get rich it's good to own equity in the company. Take for example Brian Acton, turned down for a job at Facebook in 2009, cofounded Whatsapp, acquired by Facebook in 2014 for $19bn.

Almost all people who turn down jobs at Facebook go on to not be billionaires.

Indeed and Facebook can't tell who's going to so they'll pay more the $150k rather than the $1m. Dunno the best strategy if you think you're worth $1m. Probably take the $150k job and jump ship if there seems a great opportunity or if you feel the need. That's kind of what the Whatsapp guys did - they worked as engineers at Yahoo for about nine years before taking a year off and then doing the app stuff.

Re: Salary negotiations for techies (2011)

#184

Post by mooreds »

gaius wrote: post #157
wyclif wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm fascinated that in the UK, software engineers are not viewed as white-collar professionals. That seems to be a rather big difference between the work culture of the UK and the USA.

Yes, like I say, the class system, and the typical engineer's strongly expressed desire to dress scruffily and generally nonconfom, disregard hierarchy and so on. There's no reason that software professionals shouldn't be on a par with lawyers and accountants, the work is similar enough (describing the current and desired states of complex systems in very precise terms, and creating finely detailed plans for getting…

> describing the current and desired states of complex systems in very precise terms, and creating finely detailed plans for getting from here to there

What a beautiful and elegant description of software engineering!

Re: Salary negotiations for techies (2011)

#185

Post by logfromblammo »

phamilton wrote: post #81
meddlepal wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You provide free food because you get more working time out of your employees. Any other benefit your pushing is quite honestly, bullshit. They're sitting together? Great; odds are they're talking about their job and that's only beneficial to the employer. The other problem with free food is that it starts to feel like an obligation to consume it. I like eating out about once a week otherwise I brown-bag it most of t…

In an organization that enables and embraces employee initiatives, I have found that eatting together greatly benefits me, the employee. Cross team socializing has led to many new initiatives that were profitable for the company and for me personally (promotions and raises came as a result). Eating together can be accomplished through culture alone but providing food is probably easier and more successful.

Putting a basket in the break room, filled with menus from nearby take-out restaurants, is even easier.

I have worked at a lot of different companies, and an ad-hoc, employee-organized lunch run is very common. The person who commits to handling the cash and picking up the food decides on the restaurant, orders are placed by a deadline, and people eat it when it arrives. If a manager or admin staffer names the restaurant, they have to say whether the cost of the meal is on the company or not.

Occasionally, someone will name a sit-down restaurant and a time of day, and people simply show up.

People who don't want to participate on any given day don't participate. They eat the lunch they packed from home, or go somewhere else.

That's how grown-ups eat lunch. If this pattern does not arise naturally, there is some dysfunction in the workplace that should probably be solved directly, rather than trying to force the pattern into existence by providing catered lunches.

Re: Salary negotiations for techies (2011)

#186

Post by SandB0x »

No1 wrote: post #40

The main tenet of this blog post is that you should argue for your compensation based on the amount of value you add to the company. That's nice in theory, but the techies' dilemma is that it's often difficult or impossible to put a hard number on the value they have added. How many customers were retained because you decreased response times by 100ms? How many customers were gained because of that slick UI you creat…

Someone made a comment a while ago "The only way to capture your economic value is to put it on the market as a business" and I think they are spot on. The mindset of dealing with people/employees and dealing with businesses seems completely different.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8357471

Re: Salary negotiations for techies (2011)

#187

Post by nsxwolf »

yummyfajitas wrote: post #105
No1 wrote: post #40

The main tenet of this blog post is that you should argue for your compensation based on the amount of value you add to the company. That's nice in theory, but the techies' dilemma is that it's often difficult or impossible to put a hard number on the value they have added. How many customers were retained because you decreased response times by 100ms? How many customers were gained because of that slick UI you creat…

How many customers were retained because you decreased response times by 100ms? How many customers were gained because of that slick UI you created? These two things can be precisely measured, provided you have the traffic. And you should be measuring them anyway , because that slick UI might be hurting things. A/B test all the things. Then you'll know both your value, and whether any specific improvement you made is…

A salaried employee is never going to gain anything from this except a small bonus, a marginally higher salary increase than his or her peers, or a pat on the back.

Re: Salary negotiations for techies (2011)

#188

Post by phamilton »

logfromblammo wrote: post #185
phamilton wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In an organization that enables and embraces employee initiatives, I have found that eatting together greatly benefits me, the employee. Cross team socializing has led to many new initiatives that were profitable for the company and for me personally (promotions and raises came as a result). Eating together can be accomplished through culture alone but providing food is probably easier and more successful.

Putting a basket in the break room, filled with menus from nearby take-out restaurants, is even easier. I have worked at a lot of different companies, and an ad-hoc, employee-organized lunch run is very common. The person who commits to handling the cash and picking up the food decides on the restaurant, orders are placed by a deadline, and people eat it when it arrives. If a manager or admin staffer names the restau…

I think your suggestion works well at a smaller company (<50 employees), but as the company starts moving to multiple floors/buildings and departments become a bit more isolated then the organic lunches tend to be intra-department vs inter-department. We have lunch brought in once a week. On the days we don't have lunch it is very much as you describe within each department, but on the day the company provides lunch it is very common to see engineers eating with the account management team and that is when the useful conversations happen.

Re: Salary negotiations for techies (2011)

#189

Post by wyclif »

GFischer wrote: post #171
wyclif wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agency, trust, and autonomy are great, but they're no replacement for rock solid health, vision, and dental benefits, plus a matching 401k. Now that's sexy. Disclaimer: I'm married and a father.

However, the absence of those can make you sad and bitter. I work at a company with rock solid health, vision, and dental benefits, very good working hours, and I can't wait to get out. It's full of married employees with children that hope to retire here. It is an excellent place for pregnant women, but no good if you're young or have any kind of ambition.

It's not an either/or. Ideally, I prefer the both/and.

Re: Salary negotiations for techies (2011)

#190

Post by ar_turnbull »

phamilton wrote: post #81
meddlepal wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You provide free food because you get more working time out of your employees. Any other benefit your pushing is quite honestly, bullshit. They're sitting together? Great; odds are they're talking about their job and that's only beneficial to the employer. The other problem with free food is that it starts to feel like an obligation to consume it. I like eating out about once a week otherwise I brown-bag it most of t…

In an organization that enables and embraces employee initiatives, I have found that eatting together greatly benefits me, the employee. Cross team socializing has led to many new initiatives that were profitable for the company and for me personally (promotions and raises came as a result). Eating together can be accomplished through culture alone but providing food is probably easier and more successful.

I work at an agency that used to have an office bistro for breakfast/lunch. We moved to a new office and lost the perk because it didn't have the space.

Now people just sit at their desk and check Facebook/reddit/etc over lunch — or they break into cliques. As a junior employee, I found that free lunch leveled the playing field. Senior managers couldn't hide out with only other senior managers when you all eat at the same place.

They say that the family that eats together stays together and I think that's just as true for work families.

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