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Is the World Making You Sick?

nautil.us

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Re: Is the World Making You Sick?

#31

Post by canvia »

mod wrote: post #26
claar wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, I could write a book. She presented with the most useless of symptoms: fatigue, caused by nearly every disease ever according to her specialists. She also had GI symptoms, but she's had those most of her life, though they got worse when the fatigue hit after child #4. GI specialist (and every other specialist) gave her a clean bill of health, not celiac disease or a known autoimmune disease, though she had a po…

What were the toxins? I see gluten listed, and I know it's commonly believed by some to be a toxin (I don't hold an opinion fwiw), and otherwise it looks like diet changes. Glad to hear she's feeling better, though.

A lot of gluten in foods comes from GMO wheat which is grown using chemicals. Maybe it isn't the gluten so much as the chemicals from the wheat that the gluten is from that are causing the problems.

Re: Is the World Making You Sick?

#32

Post by [deleted] »

claar wrote: post #16
enziobodoni wrote: post #13

I run a hospital lab, and I see requests for testing for all sorts of bizarre things, largely by naturopaths, deriving from the "philosophy" expressed here. We refer to people who believe this stuff as being on the "Quest for Purity", a quixotic drive to remove all "toxins" from their bodies. Regardless of whether or not there are substantiated examples of low doses of chemicals causing effects, the worry about this…

Yep, this was pretty much my opinion. But then my wife got sick. Spent 5 years with myriads of specialists, who all did their testings, and threw their hands up in the air. So guess where we eventually land, when traditional medicine gets us no where? Within months of removing these effect-less "toxins" from her diet, I have a wife back. So believe what you want -- I'd do the same if it hadn't radically effected my o…

[deleted]

Re: Is the World Making You Sick?

#33

Post by dasil003 »

michaelochurch wrote: post #5

The reflexive lay dislike for "chemicals" is a bit weird to me, because everything in this world is made up of chemicals. If anything, the ostensibly healthy foods like fruits and vegetables probably have more chemical complexity and heterogeneity than processed foods. In terms of pollution and the presence of bad chemicals, it's nothing new. Burning any organic matter releases thousands of chemicals, and for all the…

It sort of seems like willful ignorance to not recognize that people living in a modern urban environment are surrounded by a vast array of chemical compounds that did not exist in meaningful quantities before the last century or so.

Re: Is the World Making You Sick?

#34

Post by enziobodoni »

canvia wrote: post #29
enziobodoni wrote: post #13

I run a hospital lab, and I see requests for testing for all sorts of bizarre things, largely by naturopaths, deriving from the "philosophy" expressed here. We refer to people who believe this stuff as being on the "Quest for Purity", a quixotic drive to remove all "toxins" from their bodies. Regardless of whether or not there are substantiated examples of low doses of chemicals causing effects, the worry about this…

As a scientist, wouldn't you want to perform extensive formal experimentation before reaching your definitive conclusions? Your dismissive attitude on this topic seems a bit closed minded.

Believing that everything yet undisproven is somehow valid or worth study does not indicate open-mindedness, necessarily. The question you ask also presupposes that there has been no formal experimentation on his sort of thing before, which is not true. We know much that supports the old saw that, "the dose makes the poison," gleaned from years and years of study of environmental toxicology. One of my favorite musicians, Tim Minchin, once said that if you open your mind too much, your brain will fall out.

Re: Is the World Making You Sick?

#35

Post by o_____________o »

lukifer wrote: post #22
michaelochurch wrote: post #5

The reflexive lay dislike for "chemicals" is a bit weird to me, because everything in this world is made up of chemicals. If anything, the ostensibly healthy foods like fruits and vegetables probably have more chemical complexity and heterogeneity than processed foods. In terms of pollution and the presence of bad chemicals, it's nothing new. Burning any organic matter releases thousands of chemicals, and for all the…

Honest question: given the incredible variety of chemical compounds in nature, if one wants to describe specifically those that are directly harmful to health, or that trigger an immune response in some persons, what is the optimal umbrella term? ("Toxin" is every bit as overloaded and fuzzy as "chemical" in common parlance.)

That's the problem, isn't it? What is directly harmful to health? Beyond those agents we've universally codified as people poison, "harmful" is a constantly shifting designation that will always be misappropriated by those with a cross to bear over their pet subject. Health is such a complex, nuanced subject that its hard to imagine anything different than the messy passions we're describing.

Re: Is the World Making You Sick?

#37

Post by o_____________o »

canvia wrote: post #31
mod wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What were the toxins? I see gluten listed, and I know it's commonly believed by some to be a toxin (I don't hold an opinion fwiw), and otherwise it looks like diet changes. Glad to hear she's feeling better, though.

A lot of gluten in foods comes from GMO wheat which is grown using chemicals. Maybe it isn't the gluten so much as the chemicals from the wheat that the gluten is from that are causing the problems.

What? If you're not trolling, what wheat is grown without chemicals? Sincere question.

Re: Is the World Making You Sick?

#38

Post by enziobodoni »

claar wrote: post #16
enziobodoni wrote: post #13

I run a hospital lab, and I see requests for testing for all sorts of bizarre things, largely by naturopaths, deriving from the "philosophy" expressed here. We refer to people who believe this stuff as being on the "Quest for Purity", a quixotic drive to remove all "toxins" from their bodies. Regardless of whether or not there are substantiated examples of low doses of chemicals causing effects, the worry about this…

Yep, this was pretty much my opinion. But then my wife got sick. Spent 5 years with myriads of specialists, who all did their testings, and threw their hands up in the air. So guess where we eventually land, when traditional medicine gets us no where? Within months of removing these effect-less "toxins" from her diet, I have a wife back. So believe what you want -- I'd do the same if it hadn't radically effected my o…

It is devilishly difficult to separate correlation and causation. This difficulty has to be the reason why some forms of "medicine" persist, ie naturopathy will have to work sometime, just as a stopped watch is right twice a day. I would never be so foolish as to discount your story, however, without knowing the actual facts, and without acknowledging that some people do, in fact, have food allergies, celiac sprue, etc... The problem is that not nearly as many people actually have these things as they might believe. And, combined with the STRONG financial motivation for folks to exploit the sufferings of others like yourself, my point is just hat its devilishly hard to make sense of anything.

Re: Is the World Making You Sick?

#39

Post by pavel_lishin »

canvia wrote: post #31
mod wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What were the toxins? I see gluten listed, and I know it's commonly believed by some to be a toxin (I don't hold an opinion fwiw), and otherwise it looks like diet changes. Glad to hear she's feeling better, though.

A lot of gluten in foods comes from GMO wheat which is grown using chemicals. Maybe it isn't the gluten so much as the chemicals from the wheat that the gluten is from that are causing the problems.

> GMO wheat which is grown using chemicals

I think this comment in particular is getting downvoted because it doesn't say anything. Every food we eat is genetically modified; we've bred it to produce more over the past thousands of years. And "chemicals" is literally everything you, food, and most of the universe is made of.

Re: Is the World Making You Sick?

#40

Post by enziobodoni »

jpmattia wrote: post #15
enziobodoni wrote: post #13

I run a hospital lab, and I see requests for testing for all sorts of bizarre things, largely by naturopaths, deriving from the "philosophy" expressed here. We refer to people who believe this stuff as being on the "Quest for Purity", a quixotic drive to remove all "toxins" from their bodies. Regardless of whether or not there are substantiated examples of low doses of chemicals causing effects, the worry about this…

> and I see requests for testing for all sorts of bizarre things It would be interesting: Can you list a bunch?

Micronutrients, even in hair. Trace metals, especially after chelation therapy, when the results are definitely misleading. Labs that associate Candida with everything. "Stealth" virus testing. Quack Lyme disease serology labs that always give positive results. Anti-malignin antibodies. Multi variate index assays predicting irritable bowel disease. IgG food allergies. Outrageously large (>50-100 component) IgE allergy tests.
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