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New Snowden Docs Indicate Scope of NSA Preparations for Cyber Battle

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Re: New Snowden Docs Indicate Scope of NSA Preparations for Cyber Battle

#231

Post by woah »

diminoten wrote: post #107
pa7ch wrote: post #30

Looking at the comments in support of the NSA here makes me suspect an astroturfing campaign is happening. Edit: I should add that my suspicion came from noticing that the vast majority of the comments when this was first posted seemed aligned in favor of the NSA's mission. It wasn't the presence of pro-NSA comments that was interesting but rather that these opinions were the overwhelming majority. This is, of course…

There is absolutely no reason for the NSA to give a flying fuck about what you or I think. There just isn't, and it'd be a waste of resources to even attempt something like this. People do exist (I am one of them) who think the NSA is doing a nasty job that isn't very appealing, but is absolutely necessary for me to be able to sleep in my bed at night safely. They may not have the best guidance from the government, b…

What are you afraid of?

Re: New Snowden Docs Indicate Scope of NSA Preparations for Cyber Battle

#232

Post by foldr »

Afforess wrote: post #20
fidotron wrote: post #16

To be fair here, the NSA should very well be doing these things, for the purpose of attacking other states. The reason is very clear as the Russian attacks on Estonia ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_cyberattacks_on_Estonia ) demonstrate a clear need for defensive capability in this area, and where you have defence you end up needing offence. This persistent confusion between legitimate NSA operations such as pre…

Agreed. I think the Snowden revelations have harmed the NSA's reputation to the point where most people on HN just assume NSA is a bond-level villain. The NSA serves a purpose, they are meant to be prepared offensively and defensively for the USA's security, which includes the internet. I have no problems with the NSA's purpose and would prefer they continue to exist and prepare against threats to the country. I do b…

>that this world does have bad guy's

No, movies have bad guys.

Re: New Snowden Docs Indicate Scope of NSA Preparations for Cyber Battle

#233

Post by acqq »

happyscrappy wrote: post #230
TeMPOraL wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know. The EU seems to be more concerned about not falling apart right now. But then again, I was hoping the people of US would notice and maybe tell their government that they don't want to be citizens of the biggest terrorist state on the planet?

I am sure ISIS and al Qaeda feel they are being terrorized and Americans fully support these operations. Pakistan and Yemen help with these missions because they want them eradicated. Europeans criticize while not realizing these operation are run in large part from Europe. As long as the governments of Europe do what the U.S. says the opinion of their citizens can be ignored.

You totally ignore all the deaths of civilians caused by the US military and other actions.

Re: New Snowden Docs Indicate Scope of NSA Preparations for Cyber Battle

#234

Post by ant6n »

karmacondon wrote: post #188
lawnchair_larry wrote: post #86

Here's a story for you. I'm not a party to any of this. I've done nothing wrong, I've never been suspected of doing anything wrong, and I don't know anyone who has done anything wrong. I don't even mean that in the sense of "I pissed off the wrong people but technically haven't been charged." I mean that I am a vanilla, average, 9-5 working man of no interest to anybody. My geographical location is an accident of my…

This agency gathered information on you, attempted to friend you on linkedin and infected your family's computer. I don't think any of those actions warrant accusations of inhumanity. I can understand that it's disturbing to feel that you're being stalked, or even just monitored. But it doesn't sound like anyone took action to intervene in your private affairs or intentionally lead you to feel threatened. It's legal…

We'll get them evil-doers!

Re: New Snowden Docs Indicate Scope of NSA Preparations for Cyber Battle

#235

Post by moe »

dogma1138 wrote: post #180
moe wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And since when mass surveillance is a new thing? [...] Countries were conducting mass surveillance since pretty much WW2 Since when are nukes a new thing? Countries have been going to war for centuries! Can you see how absurd a notion that is? The NSA will soon be able to record every move you make and every word you speak or write during your lifetime, in realtime. Not much later it will be able to do this for entir…

"The second report (rapport complÈmentaire d'activitÈs 1999) deals with the ECHELON system in much greater detail. It gives a view on the STOA study and devotes one section to explaining the technical and legal background to telecommunications monitoring. It concludes that ECHELON does in fact exist and is also in a position to listen in to all information carried by satellite." "According to a former employee, NSA h…

who and how actively they are doing it should be the main issue here

Yes, it absolutely is.

Yet for some reason you keep trying to defend their Orwellian ambitions with some handwavy "they have always been spying, it's their job"...

The NSA is not "spying" in the romantic sense that you seem to be caught up in.

It is installing global surveillance, a google index of all communications worldwide (ICREACH). This goes far beyond keyword sniffing on phonecalls or opening letters.

They are implementing the exact kind of surveillance that totalitarian regimes are condemned for (see e.g. the movie "The Lives of Others"), at an unprecedented scale.

And their justification is the defense against a "threat" that is less likely to harm you or me than a lightning strike.

If you can't see the blatant disproportion here, and the extreme concentration of power in an institution that has largely detached itself from democratic checks and balances, then you must really have paid not much attention to the Snowden revelations.

Re: New Snowden Docs Indicate Scope of NSA Preparations for Cyber Battle

#236

Post by happyscrappy »

acqq wrote: post #233
happyscrappy wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am sure ISIS and al Qaeda feel they are being terrorized and Americans fully support these operations. Pakistan and Yemen help with these missions because they want them eradicated. Europeans criticize while not realizing these operation are run in large part from Europe. As long as the governments of Europe do what the U.S. says the opinion of their citizens can be ignored.

You totally ignore all the deaths of civilians caused by the US military and other actions.

Drones, contrary to popular belief, reduce civilian casualties.

Re: New Snowden Docs Indicate Scope of NSA Preparations for Cyber Battle

#237

Post by VooDoo6Actual »

lawnchair_larry wrote: post #86

Here's a story for you. I'm not a party to any of this. I've done nothing wrong, I've never been suspected of doing anything wrong, and I don't know anyone who has done anything wrong. I don't even mean that in the sense of "I pissed off the wrong people but technically haven't been charged." I mean that I am a vanilla, average, 9-5 working man of no interest to anybody. My geographical location is an accident of my…

PANARCHY

Re: New Snowden Docs Indicate Scope of NSA Preparations for Cyber Battle

#238

Post by VooDoo6Actual »

lawnchair_larry wrote: post #86

Here's a story for you. I'm not a party to any of this. I've done nothing wrong, I've never been suspected of doing anything wrong, and I don't know anyone who has done anything wrong. I don't even mean that in the sense of "I pissed off the wrong people but technically haven't been charged." I mean that I am a vanilla, average, 9-5 working man of no interest to anybody. My geographical location is an accident of my…

PANARCHY

Re: New Snowden Docs Indicate Scope of NSA Preparations for Cyber Battle

#239

Post by mikegioia »

omphalos wrote: post #169
sroerick wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hacker News is quite astroturfed. Every web forum is.

One approach to countering sock-puppetry as a general problem is with increased transparency. Personally, I think lobste.rs' notion of a user tree is a step in the right direction: https://lobste.rs/u

Do you have an account there? I would love to get an invite if so, that site looks really cool.

Re: New Snowden Docs Indicate Scope of NSA Preparations for Cyber Battle

#240

Post by jokoon »

lawnchair_larry wrote: post #86

Here's a story for you. I'm not a party to any of this. I've done nothing wrong, I've never been suspected of doing anything wrong, and I don't know anyone who has done anything wrong. I don't even mean that in the sense of "I pissed off the wrong people but technically haven't been charged." I mean that I am a vanilla, average, 9-5 working man of no interest to anybody. My geographical location is an accident of my…

If government money can put people on the moon for military or security reasons, they will easily be able to spy on you no matter what if the same motives apply.

It's not a matter of humanity, society often puts itself before individuals to make sure society can exists the longest it can. A civilization will easily sacrifice many things to secure its survival.

That's how the strongest defend themselves, it's very hard to stay on top for a long time, so often, those countries will take huge leap of faith and risks to crush their enemies, even if they're on the other side of the world.

If you're an american, you have free speech, and all the democracy and the things around it. If you're outside America, you better be an ally or look like one. Intelligence agencies are a lot about crushing people who might make america look bad, it's about public image, it's almost the same job of a journalist, except you defend your country's interests.

Survival of the fittest. Democracy is just internal management.

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