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New Snowden Docs Indicate Scope of NSA Preparations for Cyber Battle

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Re: New Snowden Docs Indicate Scope of NSA Preparations for Cyber Battle

#211

Post by DanBC »

diminoten wrote: post #210
DanBC wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you saying that GCHQ don't do it? Or that GCHQ does do it, but because they're GCHQ and not NSA that it's irrelevant? Because now you have evidence that GCHQ does it you should allow the possibility that NSA does it. The reason you don't have evidence that NSA does it might be because NSA is a secret organistion.

So Snowden decided to leak the GCHQ presentation, but chose not to show any of the evidence he had that the NSA does it?

Snowden did not gather everything. Maybe he just missed it? Or maybe GCHQ does it but NSA doesn't? We know that other bits of the US government have different levels of online presence so I'm not sure why you're so hostile to the idea that NSA has people that disrupt online conversation about NSA.

Re: New Snowden Docs Indicate Scope of NSA Preparations for Cyber Battle

#212

Post by diminoten »

DanBC wrote: post #211
diminoten wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So Snowden decided to leak the GCHQ presentation, but chose not to show any of the evidence he had that the NSA does it?

Snowden did not gather everything. Maybe he just missed it? Or maybe GCHQ does it but NSA doesn't? We know that other bits of the US government have different levels of online presence so I'm not sure why you're so hostile to the idea that NSA has people that disrupt online conversation about NSA.

I for one try to only accuse folks of doing things I actually have evidence of them doing, and I know this sounds crazy, but there's currently no evidence the NSA is on HN astroturfing comments, so maybe we shouldn't pretend like we know things we don't.

Re: New Snowden Docs Indicate Scope of NSA Preparations for Cyber Battle

#213

Post by diminoten »

sroerick wrote: post #184
diminoten wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just to be clear, is there any form of this conversation where you admit to being anything except absolutely correct on all points you're attempting to make? I get the feeling you're one of those folks who won't accept anything except what you've already concluded.

To be fair to him, you accused him of saying something he didn't.

No, I didn't, I rephrased what he wrote in terms that more obviously illustrate the absurdity of the argument he's making.

Re: New Snowden Docs Indicate Scope of NSA Preparations for Cyber Battle

#214

Post by tete »

What I find really frightening is where they write:

From a military perspective, surveillance of the Internet is merely "Phase 0" in the US digital war strategy.

[...]

This enables them to "control/destroy critical systems & networks at will through pre-positioned accesses (laid in Phase 0)." Critical infrastructure is considered by the agency to be anything that is important in keeping a society running: energy, communications and transportation. The internal documents state that the ultimate goal is "real time controlled escalation".

This isn't about fighting terrorism. It's also not about the usual warfare it's more like the infrastructure or a set of tools to control nearly every other country or the planet or at least make sure that the US will always be able to keep them from disagreeing.

Re: New Snowden Docs Indicate Scope of NSA Preparations for Cyber Battle

#215

Post by fstephany »

alextgordon wrote: post #176
AndrewKemendo wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the USA has no enemies, there are no threats. I am interested in how you came to this conclusion.

I'd be interested to know who you think is a threat! The US has two borders. One with Canada, one with Mexico. Neither of these countries are likely to invade. The US has the largest naval force in the world. I believe the Coastguard is also the 13th largest. Again, nothing to fear. Of the countries that are "enemies", most would quite like to improve relations, for instance Cuba and Iran. Iran in particular has exte…

You're right. Territory invasion is unlikely but preserving the dollar is probably another story.

Re: New Snowden Docs Indicate Scope of NSA Preparations for Cyber Battle

#216

Post by fit2rule »

diminoten wrote: post #107
pa7ch wrote: post #30

Looking at the comments in support of the NSA here makes me suspect an astroturfing campaign is happening. Edit: I should add that my suspicion came from noticing that the vast majority of the comments when this was first posted seemed aligned in favor of the NSA's mission. It wasn't the presence of pro-NSA comments that was interesting but rather that these opinions were the overwhelming majority. This is, of course…

There is absolutely no reason for the NSA to give a flying fuck about what you or I think. There just isn't, and it'd be a waste of resources to even attempt something like this. People do exist (I am one of them) who think the NSA is doing a nasty job that isn't very appealing, but is absolutely necessary for me to be able to sleep in my bed at night safely. They may not have the best guidance from the government, b…

>There is absolutely no reason for the NSA to give a flying fuck about what you or I think.

True. But that's not what this is about. What the NSA care about is what resources he has, which they would want to use for their own purposes - this is why they monitor such individuals as work at major ISP's. Its not about thought - its about action. What actions can they perform if they gain access to this persons electronic life - in the case of sysadmins for major ISP's, there is much to be gained from infiltration, exploitation, and subterfuge.

Re: New Snowden Docs Indicate Scope of NSA Preparations for Cyber Battle

#217

Post by happyscrappy »

koonsolo wrote: post #200
hengheng wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Point taken. But let's keep the CSC vs de-mail discussion for another time. I see a huge difference between spying to get to know the others' intentions, and preparing sabotage, destruction and infrastructural doom for maximum threat potential.

And industrial espionage to steal contracts form Non-US "allied" countries for economic gain.

This explains why Europe is going back into recession. The only possible threat to US power is Europe waking up but they won't even close US military bases.

Re: New Snowden Docs Indicate Scope of NSA Preparations for Cyber Battle

#218

Post by qatester »

For me the only bunch of people who wants and loves to start war is USA government, note I am not saying americans, I am saying US government. Why should you prepare if you dont have intention of war? "defense", from whom? from people where you started war? directly with Afghanistan, Iraq and some others, indirectly with Syria, even with Russia (started economically) and many others where they got governments with bribes. Now preparing for D war. Every war started with flag of "Demo hypocracy", defense and some other pseudo defensive words, reality is USA starts war and government fuckingly loves when people die. Probably you are going to downvote, thats because you didnt lost any of your brother, sister or even relatives and friends in such wars which just started because they wanted more oil and more money.

Re: New Snowden Docs Indicate Scope of NSA Preparations for Cyber Battle

#219

Post by TeMPOraL »

alecco wrote: post #114
lawnchair_larry wrote: post #86

Here's a story for you. I'm not a party to any of this. I've done nothing wrong, I've never been suspected of doing anything wrong, and I don't know anyone who has done anything wrong. I don't even mean that in the sense of "I pissed off the wrong people but technically haven't been charged." I mean that I am a vanilla, average, 9-5 working man of no interest to anybody. My geographical location is an accident of my…

Indeed, Obama and US congress made it clear we foreign people are just fair game for targeting. At least I'm lucky not to live in a country where targeted assassinations are going on. Also, it's pretty obvious terrorism is an excuse. The main reason is power and control. Corporate espionage and controlling US-unfriendly political movements is very likely the main goal.

> Also, it's pretty obvious terrorism is an excuse.

Terrorism is indeed very real, and is happening all the time. Hundreds of acts of terror have been committed in the years since 9/11, resulting in deaths of thousands of civilians, including hundreds of children. They those acts have pretty much 0 media coverage, and no one is doing anything to stop them. The US is free to keep on terrorizing civilian populations around the globe.

http://www.thebureauinvestigates.com/category/projects/drone...

Re: New Snowden Docs Indicate Scope of NSA Preparations for Cyber Battle

#220

Post by happyscrappy »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #219
alecco wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed, Obama and US congress made it clear we foreign people are just fair game for targeting. At least I'm lucky not to live in a country where targeted assassinations are going on. Also, it's pretty obvious terrorism is an excuse. The main reason is power and control. Corporate espionage and controlling US-unfriendly political movements is very likely the main goal.

> Also, it's pretty obvious terrorism is an excuse. Terrorism is indeed very real, and is happening all the time. Hundreds of acts of terror have been committed in the years since 9/11, resulting in deaths of thousands of civilians, including hundreds of children. They those acts have pretty much 0 media coverage, and no one is doing anything to stop them. The US is free to keep on terrorizing civilian populations ar…

Who do you think is going to stop them? The US can do what ever they want because Europe permanently has its head up its ass.
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