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Parents investigated for neglect after letting kids walk home alone

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Parents investigated for neglect after letting kids walk home alone

#51

Post by ashark »

graeme wrote: post #34
pdabbadabba wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know whether I agree with your general sentiment or not. But maybe we should consider whether your response to this article is itself an illustration of the very phenomenon that leads us to perceive the world as more dangerous as it is. The usual account of why we live in such irrational fear is that nobody wants to hear about things going well, and everyone being safe and happy on the news. Anyone who watche…

To be clear, I don't think this kind of thing is common. But it's also not common to see children walking alone in America, at least in the parts I've been to. It's the latter that's the problem. The former is merely a symptom of the latter, whether or not it is common.

In much of Suburbia you'll at least get some funny looks walking along certain streets, unless you're obviously out specifically for exercise (wearing exercise clothes, walking/jogging with a purpose) or otherwise have some sort of suspicion-shield, like a stroller, and aren't wearing clothes that look too cheap or dirty. Skin color is probably also a factor.

Walking to get places is for criminals or poor people :-(

Re: Parents investigated for neglect after letting kids walk home alone

#52

Post by jrs235 »

talmand wrote: post #50

A few here are giving examples of how this kind of thing wasn't a problem when they were a kid. I had similar experiences. But, I want to say that I actively do not allow my children to play in our front yard. Not because I'm afraid a stranger will take them, not because I'm afraid they'll wander into the street to get hit by a car, not because I'm afraid they'll get hurt without an adult present, not because I'm afr…

So true.

If anyone other than an officer or CPS agent takes your children, they will face consequences and justice has an opportunity to prevail. If an officer or CPS agent takes your children justice never enters the equation and consequences don't exist for them.

ADD: What can you do? "You might be able to beat the rap but you can't beat the ride. Now comply." In such situations you really are powerless. The worst kind of fear and situation, one where you are powerless.

Re: Parents investigated for neglect after letting kids walk home alone

#53

Post by [deleted] »

talmand wrote: post #50

A few here are giving examples of how this kind of thing wasn't a problem when they were a kid. I had similar experiences. But, I want to say that I actively do not allow my children to play in our front yard. Not because I'm afraid a stranger will take them, not because I'm afraid they'll wander into the street to get hit by a car, not because I'm afraid they'll get hurt without an adult present, not because I'm afr…

[deleted]

Re: Parents investigated for neglect after letting kids walk home alone

#54

Post by mordocai »

[deleted] wrote: post #53
talmand wrote: post #50

A few here are giving examples of how this kind of thing wasn't a problem when they were a kid. I had similar experiences. But, I want to say that I actively do not allow my children to play in our front yard. Not because I'm afraid a stranger will take them, not because I'm afraid they'll wander into the street to get hit by a car, not because I'm afraid they'll get hurt without an adult present, not because I'm afr…

[deleted]

No they are not delusional. I know of many cases (from my sister who worked in child protective services) where spiteful(or even sometimes well-meaning) neighbors report people to CPS for the dumbest things. CPS is required to investigate every one of them, and it is quite a hassle.

I'd say most of the time if you are actually doing nothing wrong the chance of them actually taking your kids is pretty low, but the chance of them making your life miserable for a while is pretty high.

Re: Parents investigated for neglect after letting kids walk home alone

#55

Post by sophacles »

xrange wrote: post #39
sophacles wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mostly it comes down to: division of labor is a thing. CPS is responsible for things like foster care, finding if parents are (truly) neglectful and abusive, helping teach ignorant parents how to not kill their kids accidentally, and other related things. In most of the work they do, it is just due process - Our society has decided that when a parent goes to jail, or is ordered into an institution, or what not, and d…

It sounds to me like providing foster families for incarcerated parents has nothing to do with this particular case, or child abuse in general, and the best "division of labor" would be to not have those under the same roof. But that's neither here nor there. Also, to the strange non-sequitur, I think that cops murdering people is worse than what the article describes. Are you saying that: A). All the facts of this p…

I'm saying the following:

There are a lot of reasonable and unreasonable actions on ALL sides of this.

1. Cops are mandated to report any potential child neglect and abuse in most places. While I think children walking to school alone is a good thing, it doesn't change the law stating that unsupervised children (details of the law are in the freaking article) fall under the umbrella of "potential neglect" as the rules are written.

2. The cops are following up on a report to them - again something they have to do. Some random person panicking over kids walking to school is where a lot of the rage should be placed. Not on the cops for following up because we have voted on laws requiring them to.

3. The mandatory reporting rules are in fact "Tell CPS". So yes, of course CPS is going to get involved.

4. CPS decided to find the facts. They are mandated to investigate in a certain way. Again, not by busybodies, but by the freaking regulations.

5. The parents freaked out because CPS came to ask questions. Now, this I find pretty unreasonable - while I understand it's stressful, it's also not the end of the world. It's a simple fact finding mission - answer the questions, with a lawyer if you feel it necessary.

6. Does this need to be investigated? By law yes, by sanity: no.

7. Yes, certainly all the facts are not being presented - the CPS is not allowed to comment on a case (by privacy laws) so we only hear the angsty parent's side.

8. I don't find the CPS case infuriating: I find the people who called the cops initially infuriating. I find the laws our society has enacted infuriating.

9. I'm sure the people who do foster care are a different division than the people who investigate neglect, however, they need to be in the same structure, because it makes sense to have the case worker assigned to a child be the same during an investigation and during follow-up.

10. It's not a non-sequitor to mention the cops misbehaving scenario - It's me pointing out an unreasonable difference between attitudes toward similar roles. Also note I said people, not "xrange". Further - the call for banishment of police departments never happens, but the call for banishment of CPS seems OK - even though they are just enforcing a different group of laws.

11. Rotation would probably be good.

Re: Parents investigated for neglect after letting kids walk home alone

#56

Post by giarc »

goodcanadian wrote: post #41

"'The number one cause of death for children of their age is a car accident.'” They're children. What else are they going to die of?

Measles.

Just a joke, but you're correct. There risk of most major life threatening diseases (cancer, lung disease, etc) are near 0 and therefore MVAs do kill the most.

Re: Parents investigated for neglect after letting kids walk home alone

#57

Post by sophacles »

chris_wot wrote: post #40
sophacles wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mostly it comes down to: division of labor is a thing. CPS is responsible for things like foster care, finding if parents are (truly) neglectful and abusive, helping teach ignorant parents how to not kill their kids accidentally, and other related things. In most of the work they do, it is just due process - Our society has decided that when a parent goes to jail, or is ordered into an institution, or what not, and d…

It's because the general idea that someone can take away the children you love due to a misunderstanding is pretty freaking terrifying! Parents make mistakes all the time. When you see stupidity like this, you realise there's a problem. It's very unfortunate, because at the same time as ridiculous things like this one are occurring there really are abused kids out there slipping through the cracks.

I don't understand what you are saying? The CPS is required to follow up on every report, as a result of hand wavy crap likee "there really are abused kids out there slipping through the cracks". But when they act on it, they are still the bad guy.

Whether I agree with the law or not - as it's reported by the article, the children's ages, and them being unsupervised, does in fact potentially qualify as neglect. The CPS wasn't there to take children, they were there to find the facts. It isn't unreasonable for them to say "hey this takes a few days, we're not taking your kids, but you have to not do the same actions again, as they may be illegal".

Also: there is a giant hole in your argument: if kids are falling through the cracks, perhaps it's an indicator that the boogey man of "the kids will certainly be taken" is not as true as you think? Additionally, if kids are falling through the cracks, perhaps its that abusers (and neglectors) are known to be sneaky about it, so CPS needs to be thorough to prevent it?

Re: Parents investigated for neglect after letting kids walk home alone

#58

Post by [deleted] »

mordocai wrote: post #54
[deleted] wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[deleted]

No they are not delusional. I know of many cases (from my sister who worked in child protective services) where spiteful(or even sometimes well-meaning) neighbors report people to CPS for the dumbest things. CPS is required to investigate every one of them, and it is quite a hassle. I'd say most of the time if you are actually doing nothing wrong the chance of them actually taking your kids is pretty low, but the cha…

[deleted]

Re: Parents investigated for neglect after letting kids walk home alone

#59

Post by ashark »

xrange wrote: post #28
jessep wrote: post #6

Reading this, I felt real anger at our society. I have 1 year old twin girls and I am genuinely scared and saddened by the limitations that paranoid adults are going to put on us as parents, and them as children. We live in a world driven by fear detached from the real risks and joys of life.

>Reading this, I felt real anger at our society. I think everybody feels this way. I have a hard time imagining that anything but the vast majority of parents would agree. So that makes we wonder if there is some agenda behind this? A gas lighting effect maybe? People would say "well things may not be ideal where I live, but at least it is not like over there ", and so they are less likely to act to change things loc…

I think the main reason is that the police feel like they have to do something about any complaint of this sort, because they'll be fed to the media sharks on the off chance that something does happen, even if it's some unrelated incident[1]. So all it takes is one idiot making a complaint and the police feel like they must act because that's safer for them and for the department than if they don't.

No-one's going to lose their job or any money over the linked story, so that's the safe option.

[1] "Could the police be partly to blame for so-and-so's disappearance? Here's the story of how our police ignored reports of vulnerable children in the weeks before this horrible event."

Re: Parents investigated for neglect after letting kids walk home alone

#60

Post by graeme »

aianus wrote: post #29
graeme wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's always worth considering alternative hypotheses, but I don't think this one holds true. I've lived in dangerous places. North Americans take very few safety precautions. In general: * People aren't aware of their surroundings. Often have headphones. * People wave phones around in the air, hold them loosely, or leave them dangling out of back pockets. * People use public ATMs, in insecure locations, and don't pay…

In most of the world children ride around two or three-up on the back of their parents' motorcycles with no helmets or insurance. North Americans are paranoid freaks in comparison.

I meant safety precautions against crime. I think that's what the article was about, though maybe social services had other concerns as well.
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