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Parents investigated for neglect after letting kids walk home alone

washingtonpost.com

21–30 of 105 posts

Re: Parents investigated for neglect after letting kids walk home alone

#21
post #14

I'm 45. I walked alone to and from school every day of my youth since I was 7. My kids do the same. This is totally normal. However, some states are still ruled by people who want to teach creationism, or legislate that pi is 3, because America values freedom to ignore observable evidence in favor of opinion.

> some states are still ruled by people who want to teach creationism, or legislate that pi is 3

sweet dig but this is Maryland we're talking about, they go in for a different kind of loony there.

Re: Parents investigated for neglect after letting kids walk home alone

#22
post #5

How odd. America is much safer than it used to be, but people are more afraid. My father walked to and from school every day in Montreal when he was young, for a good half hour each way I believe. He'd go in a group with kids from the neighborhood, there were no adults. I walked to school every morning in Canada starting from age six, alone. I didn't live far from school, but if I had lived further I still would have…

Perhaps some of the increased safety comes from people being more afraid and therefore taking more precautions now? So it's not necessarily a contradiction. Edit: Also, I think some of the safety culture comes from diminishing returns. E.g., in the 1950s industrial workplace safety was extremely poor by modern standards. But the people who worked there had just been through world war II, so the risk must have seemed…

It's always worth considering alternative hypotheses, but I don't think this one holds true.

I've lived in dangerous places. North Americans take very few safety precautions. In general:

  * People aren't aware of their surroundings. Often have headphones.
  * People wave phones around in the air, hold them loosely, or leave them dangling out of back pockets.
  * People use public ATMs, in insecure locations, and don't pay attention to machine safety or who is nearby.
  * People will walk down a street with no one on it without increasing their vigilance level.
  * They carry no cash to hand over in the event of a mugging
These are behaviors that will get you robbed, fast, in a lot of places. That this stuff doesn't happen in modern north america with speaks to improved policing, cameras, etc. or fewer people making criminal attempts.

As far as child safety goes, they were never at much risk in public from strangers then or now. I'm prepared to be proven wrong by stats on that point, since I haven't looked it up, but IIRC most crimes against children are done by family or people the child knows.

Re: Parents investigated for neglect after letting kids walk home alone

#23
post #5

How odd. America is much safer than it used to be, but people are more afraid. My father walked to and from school every day in Montreal when he was young, for a good half hour each way I believe. He'd go in a group with kids from the neighborhood, there were no adults. I walked to school every morning in Canada starting from age six, alone. I didn't live far from school, but if I had lived further I still would have…

but people are more afraid. The media has taught us to be afraid. Not maliciously so. It makes us better consumers, the metric they're paid to optimize.

Fear sells. Thats it. Thats the only reason media exhaustively reports on crime. There is no corporatist/consumerist conspiracy. It sells so they do it.

Re: Parents investigated for neglect after letting kids walk home alone

#24
post #17

So, I'm not up to speed on this issue, but can anyone give a brief summary or link describing why we need a special "extra-legal" department like CPS? Extra-legal probably isn't the exact wording I'm looking for, but why couldn't issues of excessive cruelty to children be handled in the standard manner, with due-process, etc.? I suppose I only hear about the outliers of extreme overreach, but it seems like CPS attrac…

Mostly it comes down to: division of labor is a thing.

CPS is responsible for things like foster care, finding if parents are (truly) neglectful and abusive, helping teach ignorant parents how to not kill their kids accidentally, and other related things. In most of the work they do, it is just due process - Our society has decided that when a parent goes to jail, or is ordered into an institution, or what not, and does so while caring for children and having no backup means for caring for those children, we shouldn't throw those kids out on the street and hope they survive.

In the case of neglect and abuse - it's apparent to people trained to find it (even in clear cut cases) but not as often noticable just by a quick glance: A common tactic of abusers is to hide it to the outside world, and scare the abused into lying about it - cops are trained to handle one situation, CPS investigators are trained to handle this different one. (Much like we have forensic accountants investigate financial crime and homicide detectives investigate murder).

When cops overstep and murder random people - the response is "well they have hard jobs, and they are trained to be safe", but when CPS oversteps and asks some uncomfortable questions, its "busybodies". Why does no one say "well they also get kids into homes rather than putting them on the street, and they see a lot of horrible abuse cases and are maybe a bit overcautious"?

Do you in general disagree with the notion of specialization and division of labor, or is it a knee-jerk reaction to the fact that "government" is doing it?

Why do you want to automatically shut down an agency that does a lot of good, because some bureaucrat is overstepping (or legally mandated to do so, whatever the case may be)?

Re: Parents investigated for neglect after letting kids walk home alone

#25

I remembered a website with a visual illustration of how much the walking range of children has declined in Britain during four generations of a family living in the same town. The map, based on where the great-grandfather, grandfather, mother, and son in the same family walked, shows a stark narrowing in how far children walk on their own.[1] In my town, in Minnesota in the United States, I walked regularly on the c…

I grew up in Silver Spring and was allowed to walk to nearby parks and friends' houses alone or with other friends starting around kindergarten. If I had kids and lived there now, I would definitely allow them to walk around the neighborhood.

Re: Parents investigated for neglect after letting kids walk home alone

#26

I biked to school from grade 6 to grade 13 (Italy, we have 5 years of high school). Walked to school before, but it was only a few blocks. I moved to Texas for university, and people looked at me funny because I preferred to bike around if it was less than a couple miles.

It Texas we have this thing called summer ... There are hotter times/places, but it's enough ;)

On a more serious note, the size of the state is enough to pretty much force people to own cars/drive on a daily basis. At least that's been my experience.

Re: Parents investigated for neglect after letting kids walk home alone

#27
post #5

How odd. America is much safer than it used to be, but people are more afraid. My father walked to and from school every day in Montreal when he was young, for a good half hour each way I believe. He'd go in a group with kids from the neighborhood, there were no adults. I walked to school every morning in Canada starting from age six, alone. I didn't live far from school, but if I had lived further I still would have…

I don't know whether I agree with your general sentiment or not. But maybe we should consider whether your response to this article is itself an illustration of the very phenomenon that leads us to perceive the world as more dangerous as it is. The usual account of why we live in such irrational fear is that nobody wants to hear about things going well, and everyone being safe and happy on the news. Anyone who watches the news, therefore, sees a distilled tale of conflict and woe.

But this article is may well be doing the same thing. What have we learned from this article? Two kids, walking down the street, were stopped by police, and a social services investigation was triggered. We get virtually no information about the broader context: does this sport of thing happen often, or was this an anomaly? What will be the outcome of the investigation be?

In short, just as the strife you see on the news can make a person think the world is more dangerous than it is, the isolated examples of our culture running off the rails can have the same distorting effect.

Re: Parents investigated for neglect after letting kids walk home alone

#28
post #6

Reading this, I felt real anger at our society. I have 1 year old twin girls and I am genuinely scared and saddened by the limitations that paranoid adults are going to put on us as parents, and them as children. We live in a world driven by fear detached from the real risks and joys of life.

>Reading this, I felt real anger at our society.

I think everybody feels this way. I have a hard time imagining that anything but the vast majority of parents would agree. So that makes we wonder if there is some agenda behind this? A gas lighting effect maybe? People would say "well things may not be ideal where I live, but at least it is not like over there", and so they are less likely to act to change things locally? I don't know, maybe I'm just being paranoid.

Re: Parents investigated for neglect after letting kids walk home alone

#29
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps some of the increased safety comes from people being more afraid and therefore taking more precautions now? So it's not necessarily a contradiction. Edit: Also, I think some of the safety culture comes from diminishing returns. E.g., in the 1950s industrial workplace safety was extremely poor by modern standards. But the people who worked there had just been through world war II, so the risk must have seemed…

It's always worth considering alternative hypotheses, but I don't think this one holds true. I've lived in dangerous places. North Americans take very few safety precautions. In general: * People aren't aware of their surroundings. Often have headphones. * People wave phones around in the air, hold them loosely, or leave them dangling out of back pockets. * People use public ATMs, in insecure locations, and don't pay…

In most of the world children ride around two or three-up on the back of their parents' motorcycles with no helmets or insurance. North Americans are paranoid freaks in comparison.

Re: Parents investigated for neglect after letting kids walk home alone

#30
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps some of the increased safety comes from people being more afraid and therefore taking more precautions now? So it's not necessarily a contradiction. Edit: Also, I think some of the safety culture comes from diminishing returns. E.g., in the 1950s industrial workplace safety was extremely poor by modern standards. But the people who worked there had just been through world war II, so the risk must have seemed…

It's always worth considering alternative hypotheses, but I don't think this one holds true. I've lived in dangerous places. North Americans take very few safety precautions. In general: * People aren't aware of their surroundings. Often have headphones. * People wave phones around in the air, hold them loosely, or leave them dangling out of back pockets. * People use public ATMs, in insecure locations, and don't pay…

I understood most of what you said, but I'm not sure about

> * They carry no cash to hand over in the event of a mugging

Can you elaborate on this point? I'd be surprised if thieves thought, "Jeez, nothing to steal from this one, I'd better at least stab them or I won't have done anything wrong..."

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