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Italia Startup Visa

italiastartupvisa.mise.gov.it

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Re: Italia Startup Visa

#171

Post by flexie »

gruturo wrote: post #11

One piece of advice from an Italian, who was born and grew up there: It's a suicide, absolutely do NOT do this. We have the best weather, culture, food, wine, beaches, etc, you name it. But opening a business in that dysfunctional country? RUN and don't look back. Between fiscal pressure, crazy laws and compliances, the effective presumption of guilt, completely broken or unavailable infrastructure in the hand of mon…

A piece of advice from a non-Italian who never lived in Italy:

Don't listen too much to people who left their first world country and tries to convince themselves it was the right thing to do.

At the moment quite few Italians leave Italy: Only around 80,0000 yearly (~0.1% of the population).

For comparison, Denmark, with 1/11 the population of Italy and usually ranked one of the best places in the world to do business, experiences emigration of 45,000 per year (~1% of the population).

The immigration into Italy dwarfs the migration away from Italy.

Re: Italia Startup Visa

#172

Post by EliRivers »

Morgawr wrote: post #170
EliRivers wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd like to take exception with your assertion of the best food, if I may :) I spent six months working in and around Naples (which, I know, is perhaps not entirely representative of the country, but is the third largest city in Italy) and the food was basically pizza or pasta. Often, not even particularly good pizza or pasta; I suppose when you don't have to compete with a variety of interesting foods from around th…

You really need to take the time to learn and appreciate the food culture in Italy, oddly we have a very diverse and broad/spread culture all over the country. I personally don't enjoy Neapolitan cuisine that much but even that it's to say very little, you can literally travel a few km away from a city and find completely different food and cuisine. If you get bored of eating stuff in Naples, that's because you are o…

Half of what you gave as an example there is pasta, or something that goes on pasta.

Re: Italia Startup Visa

#173

Post by nicolettad »

camillomiller wrote: post #163
edelweiss22 wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I second this. "I think the real challenge is to stay here, not to run away abroad". It hurts me hearing those expats talking shit about our country. I can't imagine how they change perception of Italy to everyone they get in touch with. To those of you, stop bashing and start being the first change you want to see.

I finally moved to Germany. I tried, but could not bear it anymore. I miss my family and friends oh so badly, but staying? It would have been even worse. Those who stay are the ones with the real courage, people say. No, I'm really sorry, but those who stay are those who have their shoulders covered (by family, maybe) and may have some long-standing interests that give them enough stability to try what they want. But…

Thank you for your comment, you really express my thoughts. I'm sicking of hearing people say that, just because they're not willing to expat or because they have their shoulder covered. I wanted to live with my boyfriend, have my own house, buy me a new computer, etc... I couldn't do it in Italy. I could just work and live at home with my parents so I didn't had to pay rent and expenses. A lot of my friends does that but I'm 26 and I deserve to be independent, so I expat. Do you people think that is the simple way? I assure you that it isn't.

Re: Italia Startup Visa

#174

Post by gkya »

mystixx wrote: post #109
gruturo wrote: post #11

One piece of advice from an Italian, who was born and grew up there: It's a suicide, absolutely do NOT do this. We have the best weather, culture, food, wine, beaches, etc, you name it. But opening a business in that dysfunctional country? RUN and don't look back. Between fiscal pressure, crazy laws and compliances, the effective presumption of guilt, completely broken or unavailable infrastructure in the hand of mon…

I'm from Italy as well. As everyone else, I am dissatisfied with how Italy is run, but it's _disgusting_ to see how many Italians living abroad claim the right to hurl mud at Italy. I think the real challenge is to stay here, not to run away abroad. As a proof, here we ended up talking of mafia and corruption, following common stereotypes and therefore giving a distorted idea of Italy. I think most of the people that…

> I have rarely heard a non-Italian speaking so low of his own country, as only Italians can do.

I'm Turkish studying Italian language and literature at uni, and I can assure you that Turks and Italians are competing a trophy in this race of self-bashing. So much so that I sometimes regret having got into studying italian culture.

Re: Italia Startup Visa

#175

Post by gQTZNsXG »

Oh, sidenote: probably the biggest italian company, FIAT, recently moved (fiscally speaking) out of Italy, towards states with lower fiscal pressure (Netherlands, if I recall correctly).

And FIAT was/is big and competent enough to handle all of the sh*t italian laws impose.

Just saying.

Re: Italia Startup Visa

#177

Post by arximboldi »

Htsthbjig wrote: post #101
gruturo wrote: post #11

One piece of advice from an Italian, who was born and grew up there: It's a suicide, absolutely do NOT do this. We have the best weather, culture, food, wine, beaches, etc, you name it. But opening a business in that dysfunctional country? RUN and don't look back. Between fiscal pressure, crazy laws and compliances, the effective presumption of guilt, completely broken or unavailable infrastructure in the hand of mon…

IMHO Italy is two different countries in one. Similar to Spain. In both countries the south has nothing to do with the north. In both countries the south if sunny, happiness and optimism. But also non serious in all areas of life, including business, and friendship influence and favors economy, also called corruption. I have a German friend that was so happy when he sold so many products to south Italian customers. I…

Well, I can't talk about about Italy because I have never been there. But I am from the south of Spain and my family is from the north of Spain and what you just said is both stupid and xenophobic.

Re: Italia Startup Visa

#178

Post by FabioA »

danmaz74 wrote: post #27
gruturo wrote: post #11

One piece of advice from an Italian, who was born and grew up there: It's a suicide, absolutely do NOT do this. We have the best weather, culture, food, wine, beaches, etc, you name it. But opening a business in that dysfunctional country? RUN and don't look back. Between fiscal pressure, crazy laws and compliances, the effective presumption of guilt, completely broken or unavailable infrastructure in the hand of mon…

> I was lucky not have the pleasure of such acquaintances but don't worry, if you become large enough or successful enough, they will come to you. I'm Italian too, live in Italy, and I'm really sick of this ill-informed self-disparaging attitude from so many Italians. There are millions of Italians who will say "I haven't personally never been touched by this, I don't even know anybody who was personally touched by i…

I'm amazed that even though news about ndrangheta being very well radicated in Lombardia and other regions from the North (even as up as in Germany!), about a new kind of mafia being born right in the capital, somebody still thinks mafia is something that pertains specifically to the "South".

Please, we've even got members of the Parliament who have been convicted for mafia issues!!

Re: Italia Startup Visa

#179

Post by DeusExMachina »

mystixx wrote: post #109
gruturo wrote: post #11

One piece of advice from an Italian, who was born and grew up there: It's a suicide, absolutely do NOT do this. We have the best weather, culture, food, wine, beaches, etc, you name it. But opening a business in that dysfunctional country? RUN and don't look back. Between fiscal pressure, crazy laws and compliances, the effective presumption of guilt, completely broken or unavailable infrastructure in the hand of mon…

I'm from Italy as well. As everyone else, I am dissatisfied with how Italy is run, but it's _disgusting_ to see how many Italians living abroad claim the right to hurl mud at Italy. I think the real challenge is to stay here, not to run away abroad. As a proof, here we ended up talking of mafia and corruption, following common stereotypes and therefore giving a distorted idea of Italy. I think most of the people that…

> I think the real challenge is to stay here, not to run away abroad.

Exactly. And that's why everybody is advising not to start a business there. Do you want extra challenges when you are doing something that is not easy already? Probably you think there is something "heroic" in it, but that's not the case for everybody.

I am an iOS developer. I left a country where I had a job I didn't like (not in iOS, but on Microsoft platforms) for a ridiculous salary, where working for yourself is a suicide. And I was one of the lucky ones. The moment I moved I got triple the salary for a job I liked and later was able to start my own business. Accounting and tax declaration here in NL is really easy, and fiscal pressure is much better. Frankly, since my life got immediately so much better outside of Italy I don't need to implicitly justify my decisions. I have plenty of explicit reason I can list.

You might find it disgusting that Italians throw mud at their own country, I find it sad to see people defending it only because it's their own country, and as such is exempted from criticism. Maybe you are the one trying to implicitly justify your decision to remain.

Re: Italia Startup Visa

#180

Post by thinkindie »

fauigerzigerk wrote: post #169
mystixx wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm from Italy as well. As everyone else, I am dissatisfied with how Italy is run, but it's _disgusting_ to see how many Italians living abroad claim the right to hurl mud at Italy. I think the real challenge is to stay here, not to run away abroad. As a proof, here we ended up talking of mafia and corruption, following common stereotypes and therefore giving a distorted idea of Italy. I think most of the people that…

Providing facts is the best way of debunking sterotypes though. In your statement, I see only patriotism, which isn't very convincing. Maybe you could start by explaining why Italy comes 56th (between Turkey and Belarus) in the ease of doing business rankings: http://www.doingbusiness.org/rankings I know all rankings can be criticised, but this one confirms everything I have read about things like rule of law and red…

the very same ranking ranks Italy better than Luxembourg where almost all the American large companies have their European HQ.

It also ranks Malaysia better than Switzerland. Oh, please.

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