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Italia Startup Visa

italiastartupvisa.mise.gov.it

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Re: Italia Startup Visa

#21

Post by tigroferoce »

mino wrote: post #16
gruturo wrote: post #11

One piece of advice from an Italian, who was born and grew up there: It's a suicide, absolutely do NOT do this. We have the best weather, culture, food, wine, beaches, etc, you name it. But opening a business in that dysfunctional country? RUN and don't look back. Between fiscal pressure, crazy laws and compliances, the effective presumption of guilt, completely broken or unavailable infrastructure in the hand of mon…

Regarding this statement: "if you become large enough or successful enough, they will come to you" I wonder how you can back it up with data (see also my comments below regarding stereotypes).

Being Italian as well, and having worked both in this industry and academia for a few years I can confirm: believe each of those words. We have no data, but enough experience to assert this. However if you need data,just search how bad Italy is ranked for corruption and think how difficult will it be to work in a country where bribe and not competition is the main driver when it comes to choose partners.

Re: Italia Startup Visa

#22

Post by walterbell »

tigroferoce wrote: post #21
mino wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regarding this statement: "if you become large enough or successful enough, they will come to you" I wonder how you can back it up with data (see also my comments below regarding stereotypes).

Being Italian as well, and having worked both in this industry and academia for a few years I can confirm: believe each of those words. We have no data, but enough experience to assert this. However if you need data,just search how bad Italy is ranked for corruption and think how difficult will it be to work in a country where bribe and not competition is the main driver when it comes to choose partners.

Are there good history books on the origin of this business culture?

Re: Italia Startup Visa

#23

Post by tigroferoce »

mino wrote: post #13
laex wrote: post #5

One of my Italian friends isn't really encouraged by this. And I quote: "I think that I close already 2 business in Italy due to the economic crisis, the fiscal pressure when I left Italy was about 65% (not it is more) and in the first year I went there the 30% of the shop in my city have closed (now it would much more) Even without reading I can tell you that opening a business there now is a suicide. "

I fail to see the connection between opening a startup and the current crisis, honestly. Or with the closure of 30% (?) of the local shops. Also, there are a few interesting tax incentives that are finally available. For example, a law passed last month introduced 25% and 50% tax credits (depending on the expense category) on R&D investments, including labour costs for "highly trained" (MSc or PhD) workers. Sure, Ita…

Sorry to disagree. I am an Italian (one who did not leave) and the situation is the same as always. Sad to say that this is a doomed country.

Re: Italia Startup Visa

#24

Post by harrygold »

gruturo wrote: post #11

One piece of advice from an Italian, who was born and grew up there: It's a suicide, absolutely do NOT do this. We have the best weather, culture, food, wine, beaches, etc, you name it. But opening a business in that dysfunctional country? RUN and don't look back. Between fiscal pressure, crazy laws and compliances, the effective presumption of guilt, completely broken or unavailable infrastructure in the hand of mon…

My Italian ex-roomates/friends (Italian 30-something entrepreneurs living here in L.A.) echo many these sentiments you write. No matter how much they love their country and families they are living (and creating) here and in New York for many of the reasons you mention above.

Re: Italia Startup Visa

#25

Post by dsirijus »

gruturo wrote: post #11

One piece of advice from an Italian, who was born and grew up there: It's a suicide, absolutely do NOT do this. We have the best weather, culture, food, wine, beaches, etc, you name it. But opening a business in that dysfunctional country? RUN and don't look back. Between fiscal pressure, crazy laws and compliances, the effective presumption of guilt, completely broken or unavailable infrastructure in the hand of mon…

Had to affirm this beyond an upvote - don't even think of going there.

Re: Italia Startup Visa

#26

Post by tigroferoce »

gcb0 wrote: post #10
laex wrote: post #5

One of my Italian friends isn't really encouraged by this. And I quote: "I think that I close already 2 business in Italy due to the economic crisis, the fiscal pressure when I left Italy was about 65% (not it is more) and in the first year I went there the 30% of the shop in my city have closed (now it would much more) Even without reading I can tell you that opening a business there now is a suicide. "

i doubt anyone is going to open up a bakery there. So the worse the economy the better. now, think all the good engineers you can hire for cheap and churn out products for the US market.

Ok, but in this case shouldn't it be better to go remote and open to the whole world? BTW, I love in Italy, I have a phd and I am seeking a new job, so if you want to give R&D in Italy a try, drop me a line ;-)

Re: Italia Startup Visa

#27

Post by danmaz74 »

gruturo wrote: post #11

One piece of advice from an Italian, who was born and grew up there: It's a suicide, absolutely do NOT do this. We have the best weather, culture, food, wine, beaches, etc, you name it. But opening a business in that dysfunctional country? RUN and don't look back. Between fiscal pressure, crazy laws and compliances, the effective presumption of guilt, completely broken or unavailable infrastructure in the hand of mon…

> I was lucky not have the pleasure of such acquaintances but don't worry, if you become large enough or successful enough, they will come to you.

I'm Italian too, live in Italy, and I'm really sick of this ill-informed self-disparaging attitude from so many Italians. There are millions of Italians who will say "I haven't personally never been touched by this, I don't even know anybody who was personally touched by it, but I know this, because... well, just because, everybody knows it".

Are there corruption and crime in Italy? Yes, of course. But, except for some areas in the South, they are nowhere as prevalent as so many people seem to think.

Re: Italia Startup Visa

#28

Post by mythrowaway888 »

mmf wrote: post #6
kumarski wrote: post #2

Ndrangheta.....

Organized crime has nothing to do with the issues of opening a startup in Italy! What is missing is an ecosystem for startups: no VCs, fair amount of bureaucracy and challenging employment laws. However, you get great engineers, passionate, inventive and hard working for a pricing that is competitive with India. (Sad but true).

Wait, why is that sad? Good for India. They actually have some great developers, despite the best leaving for the US.

Re: Italia Startup Visa

#29

Post by danmaz74 »

mino wrote: post #13
laex wrote: post #5

One of my Italian friends isn't really encouraged by this. And I quote: "I think that I close already 2 business in Italy due to the economic crisis, the fiscal pressure when I left Italy was about 65% (not it is more) and in the first year I went there the 30% of the shop in my city have closed (now it would much more) Even without reading I can tell you that opening a business there now is a suicide. "

I fail to see the connection between opening a startup and the current crisis, honestly. Or with the closure of 30% (?) of the local shops. Also, there are a few interesting tax incentives that are finally available. For example, a law passed last month introduced 25% and 50% tax credits (depending on the expense category) on R&D investments, including labour costs for "highly trained" (MSc or PhD) workers. Sure, Ita…

Couldn't agree more. If your startup sells internationally, the current crisis won't affect you.

Re: Italia Startup Visa

#30

Post by tigroferoce »

walterbell wrote: post #22
tigroferoce wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being Italian as well, and having worked both in this industry and academia for a few years I can confirm: believe each of those words. We have no data, but enough experience to assert this. However if you need data,just search how bad Italy is ranked for corruption and think how difficult will it be to work in a country where bribe and not competition is the main driver when it comes to choose partners.

Are there good history books on the origin of this business culture?

I don't know, sorry. I just live the situation
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