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Italia Startup Visa

italiastartupvisa.mise.gov.it

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Re: Italia Startup Visa

#111

Post by EvaK_de »

svzdvd wrote: post #65
DaniFong wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"the best weather, culture, food, wine, beaches, etc, you name it." Hmm. Why not go there, write some code for the broader world, start the business somewhere else?

It's simple: because if you live here, you have to pay taxes here. A lot of taxes. And the Italian equivalent of IRS can just come to you and say that you don't pay enough, you're presumed guilty and you'll have to accept to pay a fine or try to prove you're innocent in court (which could take years).

Is this an older regulation or is it the result of Italy being more and more pressured by the EU to fix their household in recent years?

Re: Italia Startup Visa

#112

Post by mashermack »

mystixx wrote: post #109
gruturo wrote: post #11

One piece of advice from an Italian, who was born and grew up there: It's a suicide, absolutely do NOT do this. We have the best weather, culture, food, wine, beaches, etc, you name it. But opening a business in that dysfunctional country? RUN and don't look back. Between fiscal pressure, crazy laws and compliances, the effective presumption of guilt, completely broken or unavailable infrastructure in the hand of mon…

I'm from Italy as well. As everyone else, I am dissatisfied with how Italy is run, but it's _disgusting_ to see how many Italians living abroad claim the right to hurl mud at Italy. I think the real challenge is to stay here, not to run away abroad. As a proof, here we ended up talking of mafia and corruption, following common stereotypes and therefore giving a distorted idea of Italy. I think most of the people that…

Speak to someone from Greece then, they are proud of lots of things as we do but honestly, from my point of view staying in Italy isn't what I define "living".

Also I don't see those who stays there as people willing to overcome a real challenge, but like someone with no guts to move away from his/her place.

Re: Italia Startup Visa

#113

Post by albertoloddo »

Beside all the good of the weather, food, beaches, history, art, women, etc. we all know Italy is a living dead. Europe is a living dead and everything.99% of Successful Italian startups get seeded here and then relocate to uk or us to get series A and better taxes and legal system. But engineering workforce is cheap and very talented.

But there's something that really kills it. It's us Italians. We just love to complain. Yes It's a shit, they are stealing our money and tying our hands, but it's sufficient to ready these comments to understand that the problem is us.

Winners find solutions. Losers find excuses.

I'm proud of being Italian. We are people of love, not people of freedom. I have almost married an american girl and lived and worked there on and off for two years. We have to fight for our country and for our Europe.

Besides that, everything we know will be disrupted and what will be left is just our memories.

I work at an accelerator (registered incubator) I'll be happy to chat with you who want to know more about here.

A

Re: Italia Startup Visa

#114

Post by davidw »

walterbell wrote: post #22
tigroferoce wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being Italian as well, and having worked both in this industry and academia for a few years I can confirm: believe each of those words. We have no data, but enough experience to assert this. However if you need data,just search how bad Italy is ranked for corruption and think how difficult will it be to work in a country where bribe and not competition is the main driver when it comes to choose partners.

Are there good history books on the origin of this business culture?

This one's old, and I haven't read it, but it might be worth a look:

http://www.amazon.com/Moral-Backward-Society-Edward-Banfield...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Moral_Basis_of_a_Backward_S...

Of course, that's a small village in "the dark heart" of southern Italy 60 years ago, which is very, very different from a larger city in the north these days, so take it with a grain of salt: it's not going to be representative of "Italy".

Re: Italia Startup Visa

#115

Post by aliem »

IlPeach wrote: post #102
aliem wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can assure you, corruption is the least of our problems in our country. As stated by gruturo the real problems are taxes, inadequate laws, infrastructure (for example cable connection is scarce even in the bigger cities) and finally economic issues. I was born in Italy and I love my country, but I had to move to a different country to be able to work and being payed for my work.

so taxes haven't been introduced by (corrupted) politicians, to counter balance what corrupted people were doing for way too much time? Corruption, together with bureaucracy, is amongst the most severe problems that Italy has. The fact that now it's almost impossible to tell the difference and there a mixture of bad behaviour at any level of any position of power.

It is not the main issue right now.

It is a BIG, HUGE issue, but not the main one ruling out housing business in Italy.

The main issue right now is the myopic political view driving the economy.

Re: Italia Startup Visa

#116

Post by edelweiss22 »

mystixx wrote: post #109
gruturo wrote: post #11

One piece of advice from an Italian, who was born and grew up there: It's a suicide, absolutely do NOT do this. We have the best weather, culture, food, wine, beaches, etc, you name it. But opening a business in that dysfunctional country? RUN and don't look back. Between fiscal pressure, crazy laws and compliances, the effective presumption of guilt, completely broken or unavailable infrastructure in the hand of mon…

I'm from Italy as well. As everyone else, I am dissatisfied with how Italy is run, but it's _disgusting_ to see how many Italians living abroad claim the right to hurl mud at Italy. I think the real challenge is to stay here, not to run away abroad. As a proof, here we ended up talking of mafia and corruption, following common stereotypes and therefore giving a distorted idea of Italy. I think most of the people that…

I second this. "I think the real challenge is to stay here, not to run away abroad". It hurts me hearing those expats talking shit about our country. I can't imagine how they change perception of Italy to everyone they get in touch with.

To those of you, stop bashing and start being the first change you want to see.

Re: Italia Startup Visa

#117

Post by lucaronin »

Oh come on. Some comments from “italians” here are really disgusting. I’m Italian, live in Italy and run a startup here. I know A LOT of guys who run successful businesses here (not me, yet!), who don’t have to deal with mafia, corruption and mandolinos.

Is it harder here than in some other countries? For sure. Are there issues with taxes, regulations, etc? Hell yes.

BUT.

It’s not impossible to build great companies in Italy. And you will be amazed to discover there are upsides too. Technical talent is great (because universities are great, despite all the shit people usually throw at them), and REALLY cheap. Also, talent retention is easier: finding good, rewarding jobs is hard here, so if you build a great company, with a compelling vision, people just stay with you. Quality of life MATTERS: good weather, food, having fun, have an incredible impact on how people work.

Finally, there are opportunities. Since Italy, as a market, is far behind in so many areas, there’s plenty of space for startups to innovate and build businesses that have already been proven successful in other countries/markets.

So, please, stop complaining. It’s hard everywhere. Somewhere it’s harder than somewhere else. But that’s it.

Re: Italia Startup Visa

#118

Post by gQTZNsXG »

edelweiss22 wrote: post #89
enricotal wrote: post #85

I really appreciate the Italia Startup Visa effort, but here's the facts... THE CONS: Italy environment is toxic for a startup. Italy is a MandarinCracy. It is a country, not ruled by politicians, but by self serving high level officials. They oversee 4 million strong public workforce, and have created the most complex set of rules & regulations and to justify they own existence along with the highest taxation (80%)…

I don't understand why people like to bash on their own country. 80%? Not certainly for everyone. As a freelance I pay 5% until I reach an higher level of income and I'll be able to pay more taxes. On top of this there's 21% for retirement contributions. Is there any other country where a lower amount of taxes is paid?

You stupid idiot. You're describing "regime dei minimi" as if it was a regular taxation for freelancers, but it's definitely not.

"Regime dei minimi" is a taxation level available only if you bill not more than 30'000 €/year. Note this is not net income, but gross income.

So you go down to 22'000€ after taxes (21% + 5%) and then you have to take away your own costs, and then you can keep some money for yourself. Also, if you live in a big city (let's say Rome or Milan) that is definitely not going to be enough to live a peaceful life and raise a family.

Oh, but that's a secondary problem: the first one is finding clients that are actually going to pay you in full.

If anything goes wrong laws take ages and the cost of lawyers and time spent in court vastly overcomes what you're losing.

Re: Italia Startup Visa

#119

Post by agos »

andretti1977 wrote: post #58

From a business point of view, STAY AWAY FROM ITALY. I'm an italian computer engineer and work as a freelance with VAT number since 5 years and i can say that there are no fiscal or burocratic simplifications and aids for startup. There is a reason why a lot of italians preferred to create a ltd based in the UK instead of a srl in italy. There is a reason why a lot of italian entreprenuers are moving to Switzerland.…

regarding the requirements, you read wrong: you need Ph.D.s OR patents OR to spend at least 15% in R&D. And the third option is really really easy to achieve.

Re: Italia Startup Visa

#120

Post by tobltobs »

lawl wrote: post #94
CalRobert wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'll want to check out: Dutch American Friendship Treaty (if you can self-employ and are from the US this could be your best option) Blue Card (If you can get a job in Germany) Irish Startup Visa ( http://www.pond-crosser.com/uk-and-ireland/republic-ireland/... ) Disclaimer - I put up pond-crosser a while ago to keep track of some of these things. Switzerland is lovely but their population recently voted to restric…

> Switzerland is lovely but their population recently voted to restrict free movement of workers with the EU so maybe not ideal. No we haven't :) What was voted on was that the gov. should be able to cap the number of immigrants per year if necessary. That has neither been done yet, nor will anything change in practice because the EU puts too much pressure on this.

Isn't "cap the number of immigrants" a restriction of free movement of workers with the EU?
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