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Italia Startup Visa

italiastartupvisa.mise.gov.it

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Re: Italia Startup Visa

#101

Post by Htsthbjig »

gruturo wrote: post #11

One piece of advice from an Italian, who was born and grew up there: It's a suicide, absolutely do NOT do this. We have the best weather, culture, food, wine, beaches, etc, you name it. But opening a business in that dysfunctional country? RUN and don't look back. Between fiscal pressure, crazy laws and compliances, the effective presumption of guilt, completely broken or unavailable infrastructure in the hand of mon…

IMHO Italy is two different countries in one. Similar to Spain.

In both countries the south has nothing to do with the north.

In both countries the south if sunny, happiness and optimism. But also non serious in all areas of life, including business, and friendship influence and favors economy, also called corruption.

I have a German friend that was so happy when he sold so many products to south Italian customers. I asked if he was sure they were going to pay...sure enough he was lucky to get paid at all(after a way longer time than compromised and after lots of problems).

Italy is a beautiful place to live, but not for work. You could get the same access to industry, business friendliness and employment that you get in North of Italy in Switzerland or Austria, but without the tax of having to continuously subsidize the south.

Re: Italia Startup Visa

#102

Post by IlPeach »

aliem wrote: post #64
danmaz74 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I was lucky not have the pleasure of such acquaintances but don't worry, if you become large enough or successful enough, they will come to you. I'm Italian too, live in Italy, and I'm really sick of this ill-informed self-disparaging attitude from so many Italians. There are millions of Italians who will say "I haven't personally never been touched by this, I don't even know anybody who was personally touched by i…

I can assure you, corruption is the least of our problems in our country. As stated by gruturo the real problems are taxes, inadequate laws, infrastructure (for example cable connection is scarce even in the bigger cities) and finally economic issues. I was born in Italy and I love my country, but I had to move to a different country to be able to work and being payed for my work.

so taxes haven't been introduced by (corrupted) politicians, to counter balance what corrupted people were doing for way too much time?

Corruption, together with bureaucracy, is amongst the most severe problems that Italy has. The fact that now it's almost impossible to tell the difference and there a mixture of bad behaviour at any level of any position of power.

Re: Italia Startup Visa

#103

Post by EvaK_de »

tobltobs wrote: post #70
aliem wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can assure you, corruption is the least of our problems in our country. As stated by gruturo the real problems are taxes, inadequate laws, infrastructure (for example cable connection is scarce even in the bigger cities) and finally economic issues. I was born in Italy and I love my country, but I had to move to a different country to be able to work and being payed for my work.

In Italy corruption is not a problem, it is the only tool to solve problems with the bureaucracy.

The problem results from too many people falling for this way of thinking ... and acting accordingly.

And btw, "bureaucracy" is not a bad thing per se! See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bureaucracy

[edit: added link]

Re: Italia Startup Visa

#104

Post by pjc50 »

walterbell wrote: post #22
tigroferoce wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being Italian as well, and having worked both in this industry and academia for a few years I can confirm: believe each of those words. We have no data, but enough experience to assert this. However if you need data,just search how bad Italy is ranked for corruption and think how difficult will it be to work in a country where bribe and not competition is the main driver when it comes to choose partners.

Are there good history books on the origin of this business culture?

It's something of a default. Rule of law is hardly a natural state; it's a boulder at the top of a hill which requires effort to get and keep it there. The real question is "how did impartial business cultures develop and how can they be transitioned to?"

The books of Hernando de Soto have some good background on doing this in Peru. A key element of it is recognising which rules are unenforceable and repealing them, so instead of a thicket of unobeyable, intermittently enforced law you get a small robust core of law that's actually enforced fairly.

Re: Italia Startup Visa

#105

Post by edpichler »

gruturo wrote: post #11

One piece of advice from an Italian, who was born and grew up there: It's a suicide, absolutely do NOT do this. We have the best weather, culture, food, wine, beaches, etc, you name it. But opening a business in that dysfunctional country? RUN and don't look back. Between fiscal pressure, crazy laws and compliances, the effective presumption of guilt, completely broken or unavailable infrastructure in the hand of mon…

It seems you are talking about Brazil.

Re: Italia Startup Visa

#106

Post by bbenko »

mobiplayer wrote: post #93
gruturo wrote: post #11

One piece of advice from an Italian, who was born and grew up there: It's a suicide, absolutely do NOT do this. We have the best weather, culture, food, wine, beaches, etc, you name it. But opening a business in that dysfunctional country? RUN and don't look back. Between fiscal pressure, crazy laws and compliances, the effective presumption of guilt, completely broken or unavailable infrastructure in the hand of mon…

You just described Spain.

And Croatia.

Re: Italia Startup Visa

#107

Post by register »

danmaz74 wrote: post #34

As an Italian, I have to say that Italy isn't the first place where I would open a startup, but many comments here are really exaggerated. Corruption and crime, in the center and north of Italy (the most economically active part), is nowhere as prevalent as they say. Unfortunately, because of the crisis that really hit hard here, there is a very gloomy sentiment in lots of Italians. But as a consequence of the crisis…

This is the most balanced comment that I have read amongst all the others. Italian people have this very bad attitude of blaming continuosly everything and everybody. This energy would be better spent elsewhere. The VISA is a good initiative. One of the many things that should be done to improve our country , but it's a plus not a minus. Let's now try to change all the other factors that impede further groth and innovation. You have at least an arrow at your arch: your vote. Study the parties' program and inform yourself before voting.

Re: Italia Startup Visa

#108

Post by Htsthbjig »

edelweiss22 wrote: post #74
Lucadg wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an Italian running a business focused on Italy I can only agree: RUN. I basically begged to be able to run my online company in Italy. No way. I had to emigrate to Germany instead and I've paid taxes there for more than 10 years. Hell, I even paid for the reconstruction of Eastern Germany. Just go to some Selection Day in any Italian incubator and you'll witness how fiscal and regulatory issues are discussed more…

Don't you have taxes or regulations in Germany?

In Germany you go to a bar and say "look, I have not paid the takes that I must, and got away with it." and the next day you will have a police officer in your door.

In Italy you say the same thing and you are a hero, someone to admire and imitate.

It actually makes a lot of sense too when you see where taxes go in both countries.

Re: Italia Startup Visa

#109

Post by mystixx »

gruturo wrote: post #11

One piece of advice from an Italian, who was born and grew up there: It's a suicide, absolutely do NOT do this. We have the best weather, culture, food, wine, beaches, etc, you name it. But opening a business in that dysfunctional country? RUN and don't look back. Between fiscal pressure, crazy laws and compliances, the effective presumption of guilt, completely broken or unavailable infrastructure in the hand of mon…

I'm from Italy as well. As everyone else, I am dissatisfied with how Italy is run, but it's _disgusting_ to see how many Italians living abroad claim the right to hurl mud at Italy. I think the real challenge is to stay here, not to run away abroad.

As a proof, here we ended up talking of mafia and corruption, following common stereotypes and therefore giving a distorted idea of Italy. I think most of the people that are saying "run away" are implicitly trying to justify themselves for their decision to go away from their country and family.

Sadly, more than in culture, food and wine, Italians are the first for the most destructive self-criticism in the world. I have rarely heard a non-Italian speaking so low of his own country, as only Italians can do.

Re: Italia Startup Visa

#110

Post by EvaK_de »

eps wrote: post #33
DaniFong wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"the best weather, culture, food, wine, beaches, etc, you name it." Hmm. Why not go there, write some code for the broader world, start the business somewhere else?

Because you need a residence permit to stay for more than 90 days for each 6 months, and you won't generally be able to rent without it. No school for kids either, etc. And that's if you come from the first world country that has a no-visa arrangement with EU. Otherwise you will need an entry visa as well.

Is this an older regulation or is it the result of Italy being the target of more and more immigrants in recent years?

[edit: typo]

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