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The Human Toll of Flashbangs

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Re: The Human Toll of Flashbangs

#121

Post by base2 »

fixedd wrote: post #113
zanny wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They don't have to. There are plenty of good cops, but your mileage will vary with the integrity of the local PD. There are these hot beds of systemically bad police precincts and the power structure is organized such that those who could fix it are also those initiating it. A large contributing factor is the military industrial complex spewing out death tech at an absurd rate, and with nobody to blow up with it all…

There's 2.5k people in my town and it's news here (literally) when someone is arrested shopping at the local Wal-Mart. The police have two miltary-issue Humvees, for some reason.

That stuff has always irked me, trying to look threatening/intimidating.

However when most people complain about military gear finding its way to police I have to laugh a little bit. When automatic grenade launchers and .50 cal machine guns start appearing then there are problems(too late at that point I guess).

MWRAPS and armored personnel carriers, those are okay. Dressing in all black(A horrible tactical color BTW) or camo now your just doing that to look upsetting.

The armored tanks are not so bad as it provides something that police can feel safer and less threaten in so escalation doesn't need to happen so fast.

Re: The Human Toll of Flashbangs

#122

Post by base2 »

refurb wrote: post #81
EthanHeilman wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I remember my chemistry correctly, thermite = aluminium + an oxidizer. So the filler you are describing is thermite. Edit: I worry I may be incorrect. Thermite seems like a very odd thing to put in a flash bang. Perhaps it is only a thermite mixture but the reaction is different?

No biggie. Thermite is a mixture of a metal and a metal oxide, typically aluminum and iron oxide (which is an oxidizer). Thermite specifically converts the iron oxide to iron metal (very exothermic). That's why they use it to repair rail lines, etc. If you replace the iron oxide with another oxidizer, it's not really thermite (since no iron metal is produced) and it turns it from a very exothermic reaction into an ex…

I'm glad someone in this thread knows about thermite. Thermite also burns pretty slow(comparably) and having to roll into an area that has thermite burning everywhere is just plain....silly?

I'm just going to throw this bucket of gasoline and a lit zippo into this room before I enter it!

Re: The Human Toll of Flashbangs

#123

Post by portlander52232 »

k-mcgrady wrote: post #6

OT: This is the third of fourth site in recent days that I've been on and thought I was on Medium. The designs all look identical. Medium's design is really nice so I'm not about to complain but it is a bit strange.

Propublica is actually even nicer than Medium, if you ask me.

The similarity you're noticing is partly fashion, but largely just that the technology and market conditions finally exist to use magazine-style type on web pages.

Re: The Human Toll of Flashbangs

#124

Post by mc32 »

base2 wrote: post #119
mc32 wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You pretty bang on. I think the unfortunate thing is that it has become an arms race. The police up their arms in response to civilians-gone-bad having heavier weapons. If I were in the police, I can imagine I'd feel safer riding in a tank to take down a suspected 'dangerous' criminal too. I think in some ways, this is a result of our fondness for the second amendment rights and arms as well as accepting the police a…

I think you would be interested in how fast someone can move in with a knife. Anyways, you give them space and they bolt away and stab or take hostage the next person they encounter. There are so many what ifs in these situations then end badly that you don't even want to let it get to that point. If "lunging" was the only thing knife welding psychos could do the world would be much nicer place.

In some situations that is a concern (hostages, bystanders) but my understanding is SOP means getting bystanders out of the way ASAP and dealing with the disturbed person. It's not like the police are six feet from them, they typically have a good cushion of space (and should take more) and take every chance to deescalate --throw fishing net at them, whatever, but use lethal force as last resort, not at the first lunge.

Re: The Human Toll of Flashbangs

#125

Post by base2 »

mattstreet wrote: post #84
ColinCochrane wrote: post #4

Bou Bou was sleeping in a portable playpen at the foot of his parents’ bed when the Habersham County Special Response Team broke down the door to the room and threw a flashbang. The grenade landed on a pillow next to Bou Bou’s face. The blast blew a hole in his chest, severed his nose, and tore apart his lips and mouth. That's horrifying. I can't believe that these things are allowed to be used with so little oversig…

The proper military use of flashbangs is to roll them towards the corner of a room or doorway. Not to chuck them into the room where they could land anywhere.

Yeah the chucking part seems where they go wrong. Normally you want to get them into the area called the fatal front, around 4 to 5 feet away right in front of the door. Your basically aiming for the floor and don't want them to go very far.

I'm going to extrapolate from experience, I'm pretty sure a flash-bang in a crib is not going to have the intended effect.

Re: The Human Toll of Flashbangs

#126

Post by nagrom »

[deleted] wrote: post #118
girvo wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jesus... that's completely indefensible. Now, I don't live in the US, and I only see the bad stuff that happens through the media, but I truly can't see why the police need to do things this way...

[deleted]

None of this screed justifies a group of men shooting dead (and continuing to shoot, even after death) a man who was not resisting in any way.

No-one doubts that police officers have a tough job. But that truth doesn't give the police the right to execute people, bomb houses and act as judge, jury and executioner. That scenario just makes the police the biggest, best funded gangs on the street.

Re: The Human Toll of Flashbangs

#128

Post by fapjacks »

mattstreet wrote: post #84
ColinCochrane wrote: post #4

Bou Bou was sleeping in a portable playpen at the foot of his parents’ bed when the Habersham County Special Response Team broke down the door to the room and threw a flashbang. The grenade landed on a pillow next to Bou Bou’s face. The blast blew a hole in his chest, severed his nose, and tore apart his lips and mouth. That's horrifying. I can't believe that these things are allowed to be used with so little oversig…

The proper military use of flashbangs is to roll them towards the corner of a room or doorway. Not to chuck them into the room where they could land anywhere.

That's not true. The proper military use of flashbangs is to throw them into a room (to land wherever, usually the center of the room) and then run in and murder everyone inside. You are overstating the precision involved.

Re: The Human Toll of Flashbangs

#129

Post by fapjacks »

base2 wrote: post #125
mattstreet wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The proper military use of flashbangs is to roll them towards the corner of a room or doorway. Not to chuck them into the room where they could land anywhere.

Yeah the chucking part seems where they go wrong. Normally you want to get them into the area called the fatal front, around 4 to 5 feet away right in front of the door. Your basically aiming for the floor and don't want them to go very far. I'm going to extrapolate from experience, I'm pretty sure a flash-bang in a crib is not going to have the intended effect.

Nope. You want them IN the room, not in front of your point man. It's called a "fatal funnel" also. All this shit goes out the window anyway (sideways pun intended) in combat. My preference is hand grenades, but you don't get many of those (or flashbangs, for that matter), so it really depends on the circumstance. Either way, you'll get kicked in the head if you toss a flashbang right inside the door.

Re: The Human Toll of Flashbangs

#130

Post by brazzy »

IkmoIkmo wrote: post #112
girvo wrote: post #24

> “If she hadn’t been selling illegal items out of the home, no warrant would have been served,” he said. “What you call extreme, we call safe.” Disgusting. The militarisation of police is a blight on our societies progress. And now where I live is succumbing to it too, albeit far more slowly than what those in the US have to deal with. The fact that SWAT teams are using flash bangs and automatic weaponry to raid a w…

> “If she hadn’t been selling illegal items out of the home, no warrant would have been served,” he said. “What you call extreme, we call safe.” The thing that disgusts me the most is not the fact she received a wallet. The cop seems to think (or at least avert the question) that the warrant was the problem. The journalist doesn't mention this because this comment is just so clearly ridiculous that his silence is pro…

> This woman is described as a diminutive grandmother for crying out loud.

Ah, but don't the second amendement defenders keep reminding everyone that guns are the "great equalizer" that allows elderly ladies to be just as dangerous as a 250lbs steroid addict?

This is the logical conclusion: the police treat every arrest like a battlefield operation because it could conceivably turn out to be exactly that.

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