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The Human Toll of Flashbangs

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Re: The Human Toll of Flashbangs

#21

Post by rdtsc »

beloch wrote: post #16

There seems to be some room for innovation here. The police are throwing these things blind. Evidence? Well, I refuse to believe anyone, no matter how debased, would intentionally throw a flashbang into a baby's crib. What's needed is a flashbang that either won't go off if in close proximity to a living being (e.g. perhaps add an IR sensor) or a flashbang that is triggered remotely, so it can be thrown, spotted, and…

> Well, I refuse to believe anyone, no matter how debased, would intentionally throw a flashbang into a baby's crib

I can. In the extended circle of acquintances, two of the cops are the worst abusers of their families, children & wives, the are the most racists and full of hatred. One would enjoy showing others how he would spin his son by his hand while simultaneously kicking him in the back with his foot (granted this is not a US policeman, not that a US policemen are somehow qualitatively more noble).

I think there is link between saddism (enjoyment of inflicticting pain) and choosing to be that kind of a profession (just like there might be a link between wanting to help people and choosing to do it).

Re: The Human Toll of Flashbangs

#22

Post by MarkPNeyer »

6t6t6 wrote: post #15

I don't live in the US, so I am maybe missing something but, if the police wants to arrest someone, wouldn't be easier to wait until this person leaves the house, grab him on the street and tell him: "Hi mate, we are the police and now you are under arrest". I don't see the need of assaulting a home.

> I don't see the need of assaulting a home.

it's almost always for drugs, where they'd be afraid the person could flush them down the toilet.

Re: The Human Toll of Flashbangs

#23

Post by darklajid »

jMyles wrote: post #13
darklajid wrote: post #9

I'm not sure if this belongs on this site. This is .. utterly political. Reading that article leads me astray and I have to question the sanity of the persons involved, both on the acting side (police) and the justification side (spokesman, random "Yeah, criminals are dangerous and all" crap). This is the prime example of a cultural clash, of an article that is relevant for the US of A only (I hope there's a debate o…

I don't mean to question your basis for your assessment because your comment is otherwise wonderful and agreeable, but why it is that every time an article is written that impugns a government's use of a particular technology, it is regarded as "utterly political?" Even if this article weren't about flashbangs, whose particulars are examined in the article from a perspective consistent with the norms of this website,…

I think my main concern was and is:

Given this article, the discussion cannot avoid politics. If we're assuming that political discussions might be sensitive and largely depending on your upbringing/local environment etc. etc. this leads to potential conflicts.

Technical (or commercial) posts are usually easier to digest and discuss. Posts like this seem to offer no sane way to handle them, or at least I don't see a way to do that myself.

Re: The Human Toll of Flashbangs

#24

Post by girvo »

> “If she hadn’t been selling illegal items out of the home, no warrant would have been served,” he said. “What you call extreme, we call safe.”

Disgusting. The militarisation of police is a blight on our societies progress. And now where I live is succumbing to it too, albeit far more slowly than what those in the US have to deal with. The fact that SWAT teams are using flash bangs and automatic weaponry to raid a woman's house for selling beer without a license blows my mind.

> Department officers testified that their general SWAT training included work with flashbangs even though it wasn’t formally recorded in department training logs.

In other words, they're lying to cover their asses again. Like police have never done that before. Disgusting.

Re: The Human Toll of Flashbangs

#25

Post by kevin_thibedeau »

jMyles wrote: post #10
ColinCochrane wrote: post #4

Bou Bou was sleeping in a portable playpen at the foot of his parents’ bed when the Habersham County Special Response Team broke down the door to the room and threw a flashbang. The grenade landed on a pillow next to Bou Bou’s face. The blast blew a hole in his chest, severed his nose, and tore apart his lips and mouth. That's horrifying. I can't believe that these things are allowed to be used with so little oversig…

...and what they call "well-intentioned" I call "doing a job despite its moral indefensibility." (and to be clear: I'm talking specifically about pre-dawn violent raids as a measure to ostensibly enforce drug laws, not policing in general)

What's most amazing is how smug and unapologetic the involved LEOs are when they've been interviewed on camera about this incident. One can only hope that the video is accepted as evidence in the civil case and will add a significant multiplier to the damages awarded.

Re: The Human Toll of Flashbangs

#26

Post by rdtsc »

6t6t6 wrote: post #15

I don't live in the US, so I am maybe missing something but, if the police wants to arrest someone, wouldn't be easier to wait until this person leaves the house, grab him on the street and tell him: "Hi mate, we are the police and now you are under arrest". I don't see the need of assaulting a home.

> wouldn't be easier to wait until this person leaves the house, grab him on the street and tell him: "Hi mate, we are the police and now you are under arrest".

But then they wouldn't get to use all the paramilitary gear and act like they are some special Commando unit or something. They would be boringly waiting outside for hours and they just say "Hands behind your back, you are under arrest". That is absilutely not fun compared to busting door with a ram, throwing flashbang grenades, running around like idiots crouching and shouting at the top of their lungs like in video game, wearing cool full body bullet proof with kevlar elbow pads and so on.

Re: The Human Toll of Flashbangs

#27

Post by girvo »

mikeryan wrote: post #5
jburwell wrote: post #2

The use of flash bangs by law enforcement is horrifying. These tools were design for to support direct action missions by special operations forces, and are, essentially, burning thermite [1] (e.g. able to melt through an engine block). To be clear, a direct operation mission is the use of lethal force to kill or capture one or more individuals or perform high risk hostage rescue. In these types of military operation…

There's a recent case in Albuquerque where 2 police officers are being charged with murder. In the case the police disorient a guy with a flashbang then shoot him as he turns away The police video shows Boyd talking with an officer who was seemingly trying to reach an end to the stalemate. As he picks up his backpack, Boyd tells the officer to keep his word, and not to worry about safety. "I'm not a [f———] murderer,"…

Jesus... that's completely indefensible. Now, I don't live in the US, and I only see the bad stuff that happens through the media, but I truly can't see why the police need to do things this way...

Re: The Human Toll of Flashbangs

#28

Post by bobbles »

ColinCochrane wrote: post #4

Bou Bou was sleeping in a portable playpen at the foot of his parents’ bed when the Habersham County Special Response Team broke down the door to the room and threw a flashbang. The grenade landed on a pillow next to Bou Bou’s face. The blast blew a hole in his chest, severed his nose, and tore apart his lips and mouth. That's horrifying. I can't believe that these things are allowed to be used with so little oversig…

Every single person ever booked for speeding would love to use this excuse I'm sure.

Re: The Human Toll of Flashbangs

#29

Post by vaadu »

There will NEVER be accountability as long as the conflict of interest remains where police actions are investigated by a prosecutor that relies on these same police for him to do a successful job.

Re: The Human Toll of Flashbangs

#30

Post by click170 »

beloch wrote: post #16

There seems to be some room for innovation here. The police are throwing these things blind. Evidence? Well, I refuse to believe anyone, no matter how debased, would intentionally throw a flashbang into a baby's crib. What's needed is a flashbang that either won't go off if in close proximity to a living being (e.g. perhaps add an IR sensor) or a flashbang that is triggered remotely, so it can be thrown, spotted, and…

Isn't that just a band-air for the real problem, which is the general culture of infalibility at many police departments and the shocking lack of training in light of the fact that they've been given military grade toys?
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